Stephon Marbury: Hall of Famer?

[NoahH]

HA! Never. And like people said before its the BASKETBALL HOF not the NBA HOF. Bill Walton put in 4 spectacular years at UCLA.

[JasonJohnHorn]

I said no, but I made a thread about a month or so ago that suggested there is a case to be made for Marbury. Obviously, if you look at his numbers, he posted nearly 20 points a game and 7.6 assists to go along with that. That is impressive. There are people in the HOF with less impressive numbers than that.

Coupled with that, he is still putting together and international career, and the thing with the HOF is they have put in a lot of inferoir players, like Drazen Petrovic, who didn't have a very long career (tragic though his death was, such a death is not a free pass into the HOF, as Reggie Lewis was clearly a better player than Petrovic but was not inducted into the HOF despite also suffering an equally tragic death).

My previous thread was about how much weight the HOF gives international careers. I think they give it too much weight to be honest, at least in some cases. Petrovic only palyed four seasons or so in Europe, and four in the NBA. Marbury has played almost as long in China as Petrovic did in Europe... and has posted impressive numbers over there, leading his team the championship in 2012. So if the HOF let Pretrovic in based on his international play and NBA career, than Marbury IS deserving of a spot in the HOF since he had a far superior NBA career and is still putting together an impressive international resume that rivals Petrovic.

That said, though there is a case for Marbury making the HOF, I don't think he is deserving, despite his talent, and that is because, though his numbers were impressive, there were almost always posting on losing teams. He posted very good numbers in NJ, but when Kidd took over from Marbury, the team went from the lottery to the NBA finals in a single season. They went from 26 wins, to 52 wins, and from the lottery to the NBA finals, simply by replacing Marbury with Kidd. That, to me, is very telling. You replace and All-Star with an All-Star, you don't expect such dramatic changes. Marbury, from where I'm looking, was holding that team back. One might suggest that one such instance isn't enough to draw such a conclusion, and that is why I look to his time in Phoenix. Marbury's last season with Phoenix, they went 29-53 (though Marbury was traded halfway through the season, the next season, with Nash replacing Marbury at the point, the team went 62-20! And went to the conference finals. From 29 wins, to 62 and from the lottery to the conference finals where they were beat by the eventual champs.

That is twice a team where Marbury was putting up All-Star numbers replaced him with another All-Star PG and saw a DRAMATIC imrpovement... and both time those PGs ranked high in the MVP race (Kidd finished second, Nash won, twice). That says a great deal about how effective, or rather, ineffective Marbury was a running a team. He was talented, no doubt, but, he didn't know how to lead a team, or make a team win, which is the ultimate goal. Even NY got better without him, and they didn't even bring in an All-Star PG to replace him (NY went from 23-59, though Marbury missed part of the season due to injury, to 33-50, not much of an improvement, but still, it doesn't help Marbury's case in my eyes). Even Minny improved after he left, going from .500 to 50-32, with the same coach and pretty much the same roster.

So... in my eyes, he didn't lead his teams the way a PG is supposed to lead their team, and therefore is not a HOF in my opinion, though he always seemed like a genuinely good person and a great talent, and though I do believe there is a case to be made for Marbury to make the HOF.

[Quinnsanity]

Is there some way I can vote super no?

[NY2LA]

Yes...

In the China hall of fame.

[Andrew32]

Not sure really.

People remember him for screwing over the Knicks and eating Vaseline but the dude still had 7-9 seasons of 20 / 8apg production which is pretty unique.

Even though his numbers are nice his RAPM over the years is terrible.
He was always almost in the negative range which basically says his teams were better when he was not on the floor.
Can't just rely on one advanced stat to judge a player though.

I don't like him for what he did to my Knicks but honestly I think he may deserve to be in the Hall based on others they allowed in.
Now if the requirements to get in were tougher I'd probably say no.

[PlezPlayDKnicks]

I said no, but I made a thread about a month or so ago that suggested there is a case to be made for Marbury. Obviously, if you look at his numbers, he posted nearly 20 points a game and 7.6 assists to go along with that. That is impressive. There are people in the HOF with less impressive numbers than that.

Coupled with that, he is still putting together and international career, and the thing with the HOF is they have put in a lot of inferoir players, like Drazen Petrovic, who didn't have a very long career (tragic though his death was, such a death is not a free pass into the HOF, as Reggie Lewis was clearly a better player than Petrovic but was not inducted into the HOF despite also suffering an equally tragic death).

My previous thread was about how much weight the HOF gives international careers. I think they give it too much weight to be honest, at least in some cases. Petrovic only palyed four seasons or so in Europe, and four in the NBA. Marbury has played almost as long in China as Petrovic did in Europe... and has posted impressive numbers over there, leading his team the championship in 2012. So if the HOF let Pretrovic in based on his international play and NBA career, than Marbury IS deserving of a spot in the HOF since he had a far superior NBA career and is still putting together an impressive international resume that rivals Petrovic.

That said, though there is a case for Marbury making the HOF, I don't think he is deserving, despite his talent, and that is because, though his numbers were impressive, there were almost always posting on losing teams. He posted very good numbers in NJ, but when Kidd took over from Marbury, the team went from the lottery to the NBA finals in a single season. They went from 26 wins, to 52 wins, and from the lottery to the NBA finals, simply by replacing Marbury with Kidd. That, to me, is very telling. You replace and All-Star with an All-Star, you don't expect such dramatic changes. Marbury, from where I'm looking, was holding that team back. One might suggest that one such instance isn't enough to draw such a conclusion, and that is why I look to his time in Phoenix. Marbury's last season with Phoenix, they went 29-53 (though Marbury was traded halfway through the season, the next season, with Nash replacing Marbury at the point, the team went 62-20! And went to the conference finals. From 29 wins, to 62 and from the lottery to the conference finals where they were beat by the eventual champs.

That is twice a team where Marbury was putting up All-Star numbers replaced him with another All-Star PG and saw a DRAMATIC imrpovement... and both time those PGs ranked high in the MVP race (Kidd finished second, Nash won, twice). That says a great deal about how effective, or rather, ineffective Marbury was a running a team. He was talented, no doubt, but, he didn't know how to lead a team, or make a team win, which is the ultimate goal. Even NY got better without him, and they didn't even bring in an All-Star PG to replace him (NY went from 23-59, though Marbury missed part of the season due to injury, to 33-50, not much of an improvement, but still, it doesn't help Marbury's case in my eyes). Even Minny improved after he left, going from .500 to 50-32, with the same coach and pretty much the same roster.

So... in my eyes, he didn't lead his teams the way a PG is supposed to lead their team, and therefore is not a HOF in my opinion, though he always seemed like a genuinely good person and a great talent, and though I do believe there is a case to be made for Marbury to make the HOF.

Both teams clearly upgraded their pg's but I believe the personnel improved after him leaving both times.
I agree with you tho

[ohreally]

Talent-wise it shoulds been a cakewalk, but the guy was crazy tied up in knots and squandered everything. I'm sure he thinks he's a lock though.

[Kashmir13579]

lol

[Avenged24]

lol

[bagwell368]

yes. again, its basketball hall of fame, not nba. antawn and Stephon had their impacts in their way. they will make it down the line.

What? Please cite your examples.

[Cal827]

lol

[Evolution23]

Should Steve Francis be in the Hall of Fame? I mean he a had a great 2-3 years as the "franchise" player.

[THE WALL]

no way.

[UPRock]

Only if he wins 10 more championship in China, then I'd accept it.

[LA_Raiders]

lol, no way...