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  1. #91
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    We'll see just how far along the voters have come when we see the results in November.

    If Trout wins it, we'll know they have firmly adopted a newer and better way of thinking.

    If it's very close, we'll know they wanted to vote for Trout, but the historical importance of a triple crown on a playoff team could not be overlooked.

    If it was a landslide, we'll know they're still hitching to the wrong train.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    I am starting to total the votes now. Ballots are still welcomed in until November 1st. If you don't want to submit a complete ballot, that is okay. Some people just did MVP, Cy Young, etc. That's your call. But I invite everyone to submit a ballot.

    Ballots have to be sent to me through Private Message to count.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Have not gotten any more ballots in awhile, if you want to submit, it's due this week.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Have not gotten any more ballots in awhile, if you want to submit, it's due this week.
    I'm pretty sure I'll do one. Don't move up the deadline just because you haven't gotten any in a while. I'm sure you wouldn't but I want to make sure I won't miss out.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    I won't, deadline is Thursday

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    AL MVP
    1) Cabrera
    2) Trout
    3) Hamillton
    4) Cano

    NL MVP
    1) Posey
    2) Braun
    3) Molina
    4) McCutch

    AL Cy Young
    1) Price
    2) Verlander
    3) Weaver
    4) Felix
    5) Sale

    NL Cy Young
    1) Dickey
    2) Kershaw
    3) Gonzalez
    4) Cain
    5) Cueto
    Where Pick n Roll...Pick and Roll...Pick and Roll...Rebound Happens

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    You have to PM me your votes for them to count, and you need to fill out all 10 spots for MVP

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Swinging from Bruce Bochy's sack
    WS MVP? Panda

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Bloomington IL
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    You have to PM me your votes for them to count, and you need to fill out all 10 spots for MVP
    Im not sure what is so difficult about this part lol

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    Im not sure what is so difficult about this part lol
    I am counting three posts in this thread where that poster did not PM me their votes, lol. Oh well.

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    AL MVP
    1. Mike Trout
    2. Robinson Cano
    3. Miguel Cabrera
    4. Adrian Beltre
    5. Justin Verlander
    6. Ben Zobrist
    7. Felix Hernandez
    8. Austin Jackson
    9. Alex Gordon
    10. Joe Mauer

    NL MVP
    1. Buster Posey
    2. Ryan Braun
    3. David Wright
    4. Andrew McCutchen
    5. Chase Headley
    6. Yadier Molina
    7. Jason Heyward
    8. Aramis Ramirez
    9. Michael Bourn
    10. Aaron Hill

    AL Cy Young
    1. Justin Verlander
    2. Felix Hernandez
    3. David Price
    4. Chris Sale
    5. CC Sabathia

    NL Cy Young
    1. Clayton Kershaw
    2. R.A. Dickey
    3. Gio Gonzalez
    4. Johnny Cueto
    5. Cliff Lee

    AL ROY
    1. Mike Trout
    2. Yu Darvish
    3. Yoenis Cespedes

    NL ROY
    1. Bryce Harper
    2. Wade Miley
    3. Mike Fiers

    AL Relief
    1. Fernando Rodney
    2. Greg Holland
    3. Jake McGee

    NL Relief
    1. Craig Kimbrel
    2. Aroldis Chapman
    3. David Hernandez

    AL Hank Aaron
    1. Miguel Cabrera
    2. Mike Trout
    3. Prince Fielder

    NL Hank Aaron
    1. Ryan Braun
    2. Buster Posey
    3. Andrew McCutchen

    AL Gold Glove
    P 1. Yu Darvish 2. Scott Diamond 3. Jered Weaver
    C 1. Matt Wieters 2. Alex Avila 3. Russell Martin
    1B 1. Albert Pujols 2. Carlos Pena 3. Mark Teixeira
    2B 1. Dustin Pedroia 2. Robinson Cano 3. Dustin Ackley
    SS 1. Brendan Ryan 2. J.J. Hardy 3. Jhonny Peralta
    3B 1. Mike Moustakas 2. Adrian Beltre 3. Alberto Callaspo
    LF 1. Alex Gordon 2. Desmond Jennings 3. David Murphy
    CF 1. Mike Trout 2. Denard span 3. Austin Jackson
    RF 1. Josh Reddick 2. Ichiro 3. Torii Hunter

    NL Gold Glove
    P 1. Mark Buehrle 2. Clayton Kershaw 3. Mat Latos
    C 1. Yadier Molina 2. Buster Posey 3. Brian McCann
    1B 1. Joey Votto 2. Adam LaRoche 3. Paul Goldschmidt
    2B 1. Darwin Barney 2. Mark Ellis 3. Brandon Phillips
    SS 1. Clint Barmes 2. Brandon Crawford 3. Zack Cozart
    3B 1. David Wright 2. Aramis Ramirez 3. Chase Headley
    LF 1. Alfonso Soriano 2. Martin Prado 3. Ryan Braun
    CF 1. Michael Bourn 2. Drew Stubbs 3. Carlos Gomez
    RF 1. Jason Heyward 2. Giancarlo Stanton 3. Carlos Beltran

    AL Silver Slugger
    DH 1. Edwin Encarnacion 2. Billy Butler 3. Paul Konerko
    C 1. Joe Mauer 2. A.J. Pierzynski 3. Carlos Santana
    1B 1. Prince Fielder 2. Albert Pujols 3. Chris Davis
    2B 1. Robinson Cano 2. Dustin Pedroia 3. Ian Kinsler
    SS 1. Derek Jeter 2. Asdrubal Cabrera 3. Elvis Andrus
    3B 1. Miguel Cabrera 2. Adrian Beltre 3. Alex Rodriguez
    LF 1. Josh Willingham 2. David Murphy 3. Yoenis Cespedes
    CF 1. Mike Trout 2. Josh Hamilton 3. Austin Jackson
    RF 1. Ben Zobrist 2. Nick Swisher 3. Alex Rios

    AL Manager
    1. Buck Showalter
    2. Bob Melvin
    3. Robin Ventura

    NL Manager
    1. Davey johnson
    2. Bruce Bochy
    3. Ron Roenicke

    AL General Manager
    1. Billy Beane
    2. Jon Daniels
    3. Andrew Friedman

    NL General Manager
    1. Mike Rizzo
    2. John Mozilak
    3. Walk Jocketty

    AL Comeback Player
    1. Adam Dunn
    2. Kendrys Morales
    3. Alex Rios

    NL Comeback Player
    1. Adam LaRoche
    2. A.J. Burnett
    3. Ryan Ludwick

    AL Breakout Player
    1. Austin Jackson
    2. Edwin Encarnacion
    3. Josh reddick

    NL Breakout Player
    1. Andrew McCutchen
    2. Chase Headley
    3. Buster Posey

    AL Breakout Pitcher
    1. Chris Sale
    2. Max Scherzer
    3. Jim Johnson

    NL Breakout Pitcher
    1. R.A. Dickey
    2. Aroldis Chapman
    3. Lance Lynn

    Estaban Loaiza Award
    Kyle Lohse

    Brady Anderson Award
    Ian Desmond

    Derrick Turnbow Award
    Fernando Rodney
    Last edited by natepro; 10-30-2012 at 11:07 AM.

    "There's no better public education than teaching kids that they should have been born to a parent who could afford their cancer treatments." - @LOLGOP

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Honestly, there were a couple (like pitcher Gold Gloves) where I could've made picks with a dart board and it may not have changed much.

    "There's no better public education than teaching kids that they should have been born to a parent who could afford their cancer treatments." - @LOLGOP

  13. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Im_in_Mia_bish View Post
    there is no argument to be made AGAINST cabrera, end of discussion.
    whine/cry about it, shows your lack of baseball knowledge.
    no? here's mine:

    Let's go through the arguments that people are making for Cabrera to be the MVP. And I'll do it on hard-mode by not even mentioning WAR one time.

    "He won the Triple Crown! That hasn't happened in so long! He must be better than Trout!"

    Well, that's nice. I understand it's rarity and difficulty, but the Triple Crown is just an arbitrary, seemingly random, collection of 3 stats. One of which tells you nothing about individual effectiveness and is completely opportunity-based (RBI) and one of which is very misleading and again tells you very little about individual effectiveness (.AVG). If you want to pull the Triple Crown card, though, Trout had a collection of 3 random stats that were even rarer than Cabrera's (30 HR, 45 SB, 125 R, which has never been done in the history of the MLB). Winning the Triple Crown does not automatically equate someone to be being the best offensive player that year.

    "Well he leads the league in OPS! That includes all the aspects of hitting. His OPS is over 1!"

    While an OPS of 1+ is very impressive, OPS is kind of a flawed stat in the sense that it treats OBP and SLG as the same importance, when in reality each point of OBP is worth more in terms of creating runs than each point of SLG.

    A better stat to look at is wOBA (weighted on-base average), which is similar to OPS but weighs every individual offensive outcome (1B, 2B, 3B, HR, SB, CS, BB, HBP) based on their true run value. SLG assumes that a double is worth twice as much as a single, which is actually false as a single is worth about .44 runs to a double's .77. 2 singles are better than 1 double. This year Trout posted a league-high .421 wOBA to Cabrera's .417.

    "But he had so many RBI! He had 50 more than Trout! He's such a better run producer!"

    While the RBI totals would tell you Cabrera is better at driving in runners, it's a lot closer than the numbers suggest. See, RBI is the most flawed and useless stat that constantly gets thrown around when comparing player performance. What resulted in his misleading RBI total was a league-high 444 runners on-base during his plate appearances. In terms of actual effectiveness of knocking runners in, they were close to equal. Cabrera this year drove in 31% of his runners on base to Trout's 28%, a lot closer than the 50 RBI margin would have you think. In addition, Miguel batting 3rd meant most of the time his baserunners were Austin Jackson and Quintin Berry, the two fastest players in Detroit's lineup, making them easier to drive in. Since Trout hits leadoff, his baserunners were slower bottom of the order hitters like Chris Ianetta and Vernon Wells.

    But if you want to play the RBI (opportunity) game, you must also consider the other side to having the most opportunities with men on base, with the fact that Cabrera grounded into more double plays (28) than any other player in baseball this year.

    So you can either ignore the gross difference in opportunities and give Cabrera credit for driving in many more runs while also penalizing him for creating many more outs, or adjust for opportunity and realize that Cabrera hasnít actually been that much better than Trout at bringing his teammates home once they get on base.

    "OK, well maybe his offensive numbers aren't any better, but Miggy is so clutch! He gets the big hits when it really matters and carried his team down the stretch!"

    Although "clutchness" is hard to quantify, WPA (win-probability added) does a pretty good job of it. It uses win probability, which takes into account baserunners, outs, and what inning it is -- all the things people used to describe "clutch" -- and measures the win probability before and after each player's at-bat, crediting them with the difference in win probability that resulted from their at-bat. It essentially measure's how much each individual player contributed to their team's win (or loss). For example, the highest single-game postseason WPA of all-time was David Freese in Game 6 of last year's World Series. I don't think anyone would deny that he was as clutch as they came in that game.

    So let's look at Trout and Cabrera's season WPA this year:

    Trout - 5.67 (1st in AL)
    Cabrera - 4.55 (4th in AL, behind teammate Prince Fielder and Edwin Encarnacion)

    So Trout actually contributed (offensively) to more wins, even taking into account context-based (clutch) situations for his team than Miggy this year.

    WPA by month
    -0.08 - April
    0.89 - May
    1.63 - June
    1.42 - July
    1.45 - August

    0.36 - Sept/Oct

    0.86 - April
    0.83 - May
    -0.28 - June
    0.99 - July
    1.05 - August
    1.11 - Sept/Oct

    So yes, while Cabrera was more clutch and effective over the last month, does it really make up for the previous 4 months that Trout consistently beat Cabrera? After all, a win in June is worth just as much as a win in September at the end of the year. I don't buy that Cabrera playing better during a one-month window of time that's deemed "more important" (when in reality every win is worth the same) outweighs the previous four months that Trout had.

    So now we've come to the conclusion that they were virtually equal in runs created for their team, with the slight edge to Trout, they were virtually equal in driving in baserunners, with the slight edge to Cabrera, and Trout was consistently more clutch throughout the course of the season, with the edge going to Cabrera in the final month. I think it's safe to say they were virtually equal offensive contributors for their teams, you really can't give an edge to either one.

    But wait, there's more! (to the game of baseball than just offense). You have to play defense too. And while we couldn't really decide upon who has the advantage offensively, I don't think anyone would really debate that Trout has a MASSIVE advantage over Cabrera defensively, while playing the hardest position in the game. (Although I'm not a huge fan of defensive stats in baseball - and you don't really need them in this situation for it to be clear who the advantage goes to - the defensive numbers are there to support Trout pretty soundly as well).

    One more thing to consider is Trout's obvious, and again MASSIVE, speed advantage over Cabrera. Yes, we already included this earlier as SB and CS are included in wOBA, but let's even take steals out of the picture. Trout added so much more value to his team by all the times he used his speed to go from 1st to 3rd, scoring from 2nd on singles and taking extra bases by just being faster and better base runner. This is something that Cabrera simply cannot offer to his team, and frankly, he hurts his team (takes away value) by his deficiency in this facet of the game.

    So let's break it down:

    Offense: No clear advantage
    Speed: Huge advantage Trout
    Defense: Huge advantage Trout

    So how can Trout not be the Most Valuable Player this season?

    "Well Cabrera's team is in the playoffs! And Trout's isn't! Ha! See? Cabrera is MVP!"

    Well, the Angels winning percentage when Trout was in the lineup was the best in the MLB, plus they had a better record overall than the Tigers. So Cabrera should win the MVP because he plays in a weaker division than Trout and his teammates are better? What else did Trout have to do to make up for his team's shortcomings and his stronger division? Should he have played the other 7 positions and pitched like Justin Verlander?

    He added more value to his team than Cabrera, plain and simple. Player value to me does not change based on what team you are on. That implies that your team has something to do with an individual award, and that's not the case. It's not the "Most Valuable Player plus other valuable players around you" award, it's just "Most Valuable Player". And Trout was the Most Valuable Player to his team in the entire MLB this year

    Cabrera had an incredible season, no doubt, and I'm glad he won the Triple Crown (for both my fantasy team and my wallet, not to mention the sport of baseball), but he was not the Most Valuable Player to his team this year.

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    I'm not accepting any more ballots

    I should be posting the results over the next coming days and weekend, slowly (beginning of the month is a busy time work wise usually for me though).

  15. #105
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Sorry it has taken me through the weekend to tally everything. I should start posting the winners here shortly (as in this week)

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