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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I don't put the blame entirely on Musgrave because let's face it, outside of Peterson, Harvin and Rudolph we have nothing. Harvin isn't a huge threat in inside the 20 because the short field makes it harder for those bubble screens and quick screens to work. Teams are stacking the box to stop Peterson. Rudolph is our best weapon in the red zone by far and even though he has 5 touchdowns in the red zone already, I think we need to do a better job of trying to get him the ball. When we get inside the 20 I think we need to throw at least 1 jump ball to him and hope he comes down with it, just like the Saints do with Jimmy Graham. No corner is going to have an easy time in a fight with Rudolph in the end zone.

    We are very predictable in the red zone because we really only have 3 options. Jenkins has stepped up and make a few plays but we simply just don't have enough fire power yet. The lack of Sidney Rice type of player is evident when get to the red zone. Finding a guy like him should be a top priority next off season.

    How many teams in the NFL have more than 3 Options that are top 10 in their positions? You can only put 5 skilled players on the field at once. The only team in the NFL I think truly has 4 threatening players on the field at once is ATL with Turner, Gonzo, White and Jone.. Most teams find success in running spread formations to force one V ones and create space. I will admit our supporting cast isn't stellar but teams like the Dolphins, Browns, Jets, Rams are still running plays that have guys open down field. I don't think Musgrave has shown his entire offense but I also think that Musgrave and Frazier are still trying to Protect/limit Ponder.
    Last edited by El Jorge 69; 10-16-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jorge 69 View Post
    How many teams in the NFL have more than 3 Options that are top 10 in their positions? You can only put 5 skilled players on the field at once. The only team in the NFL I think truly has 4 threatening players on the field at once is ATL with Turner, Gonzo, White and Jone.. Most teams find success in running spread formations to force one V ones and create space. I will admit our supporting cast isn't stellar but teams like the Dolphins, Browns, Jets, Rams are still running plays that have guys open down field. I don't think Musgrave has shown his entire offense but I also think that Musgrave and Frazier are still trying to Protect/limit Ponder.
    Plenty of other teams have more options. They may not be top 10 but they have more quality player depth. We have absolutely no one other then those three players. That's the issue. You are right, you can only put 5 skill players on the field at once. We are putting out three. Atlanta does probably have the best four out there but there are plenty of other teams that roll out quality players (Giants, 9ers, Packers etc...). Jenkins, Aromashodu and Burton don't exactly strike fear in defenses. The coaches can only work with what they have and we have nothing outside of those three players.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    Plenty of other teams have more options. They may not be top 10 but they have more quality player depth. We have absolutely no one other then those three players. That's the issue. You are right, you can only put 5 skill players on the field at once. We are putting out three. Atlanta does probably have the best four out there but there are plenty of other teams that roll out quality players (Giants, 9ers, Packers etc...). Jenkins, Aromashodu and Burton don't exactly strike fear in defenses. The coaches can only work with what they have and we have nothing outside of those three players.
    My point really is that our top 3 are all top 10 in their positions. The Vikings coaching staff doesnt see to have confidence to accept the idea that Harvin or Rudy will beat their defender. There is too much caution.... They feed them the ball for 80 yards and then try and use them as decoys, then all the sudden when we are backs against the wall we feed all 3 drive right down the feild and score. (see last drive of both halves against the jags, Final 2 drives vs colts, the entire 49ers and Titans game)

    Who cares if defenses know we are gonna try and throw to Rudy. After seeing him leap over the titans and that 2 pointer vs the reskins... Did he not prove coverage anything short of PI won't stop the jump ball? Does anyone think Brady gives a crap if he throws it to Gronk and Welker 50/54 passes? If it works do it.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jorge 69 View Post
    My point really is that our top 3 are all top 10 in their positions. The Vikings coaching staff doesnt see to have confidence to accept the idea that Harvin or Rudy will beat their defender. There is too much caution.... They feed them the ball for 80 yards and then try and use them as decoys, then all the sudden when we are backs against the wall we feed all 3 drive right down the feild and score. (see last drive of both halves against the jags, Final 2 drives vs colts, the entire 49ers and Titans game)

    Who cares if defenses know we are gonna try and throw to Rudy. After seeing him leap over the titans and that 2 pointer vs the reskins... Did he not prove coverage anything short of PI won't stop the jump ball? Does anyone think Brady gives a crap if he throws it to Gronk and Welker 50/54 passes? If it works do it.
    Harvin leads the NFL in catches. Hes also used as a RB and kick returner. Is that not confidence from our coaching that he can beat defenders?

    We are a one dimensional team without a deep threat. The Lions took away the short pass and stacked the box. The Skins did the same. We have no answer for it with out someone to stretch the field that can keep defense honest.
    Last edited by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS; 10-16-2012 at 09:56 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    Harvin leads the NFL in catches. Hes also used as a RB and kick returner. Is that not confidence from our coaching that he can beat defenders?

    We are a one dimensional team without a deep threat. The Lions took away the short pass and stacked the box. The Skins did the same. We have no answer for it with out someone to stretch the field that can keep defense honest.


    I didn't really say it clearly but I meant that statement referring to the redzone, my bad. I don't really think the deep threat is what we are lacking. We don't run deep routes to begin with. It's not like we don't have speed, its just noone is afraid of anyone winning 1 on 1 underneath and taking a quick slant or quick breaking a tackle and goin the distance other than Harvin. We don't have a big physical receiver with the ability to sheild off defenders and get off jams. Johnson, Dez, Hakeem, Johnson are all great down feild but they are nearly impossible to guard within 10-15 yards. Their sheer size and physicality allows them to get open and catch the ball away from their body even with perfet coverage.

    If you watch Aromo and Jenkins VS press coverage they never get more than a yard upfield. I am a strong advocate of Splitting Rudy out wide everyplay vs an outside lb or cb until we draft a Wr with enough size and body control to make the hard middle of the field catches. If teams are stacking the box Spread out the defense and run 4 wide? they cant stack the box with any more than 7 and if they do Run Everyone deep with a crossing route to Harvin (see every successful play vs the broncos last season) Everyone deep Harvin on v one underneath, if its not there Ponder can run.
    Last edited by El Jorge 69; 10-16-2012 at 10:16 PM.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by natelpete View Post
    Then when we try and throw on 1st and 2nd down, Musgrave gets hammered by us fans for not handing the ball to AD. If we don't score a touchdown on every drive, Musgrave takes all the heat. Meanwhile, Ponder is the one who is ADMITTING fault for our weak, lifeless offensive drives in the first half. He's too scared to make a mistake.
    This is absolutely not true. When you have three possessions in the red zone and you can't score ONCE. You cant score ONCE there is an issue. At it hasn't been just this game. Our red zone offense has been absolutely sub par this season. For heavens sake adrian only has 2 TDs.. 2 TDs thru 6 games..

    The play callin is absolutely to blame

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by P Harvy View Post
    This is absolutely not true. When you have three possessions in the red zone and you can't score ONCE. You cant score ONCE there is an issue. At it hasn't been just this game. Our red zone offense has been absolutely sub par this season. For heavens sake adrian only has 2 TDs.. 2 TDs thru 6 games..

    The play callin is absolutely to blame
    Your facts don't support your conclusion. Adrian Peterson only has two touchdowns this year so the playcalling is to blame? Our offense can't execute in the red zone, so let's fire Musgrave? Your logic is flawed.

    I forget what the date of the press conference was but Ponder said that our lack of production early in the game, particularly in the red zone, is 100% his fault. He stated something similiar to the fact that he plays too careful and is scared to take risks early in the game. But that he is working to fix it. His (general) words, not mine.

  8. #23
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    I'm not using the fact that Adrian only has 2 TDs to support the fact that our red zone offense has been dreadful.. I'm just pointing out that that should tell you something.

    And I don't give a **** what Ponder has said. Of course he is going to take the blame. He is the QB and he's a person that totally puts everything on his shoulders. It's just who he is. You can't sit here and tell me with a straight face that its Ponders fault with some of these plays that have been called. When you sit there and say WTF are we doing it doesn't come from Ponder. It's coming from Musgrave and its OBVIOUS. Our offense can operate between the 20s pretty darn good but for some reason when we get down into the red zone musgrave goes MISSING. He can't call worth **** in the red zone.

  9. #24
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    I'm not using the fact that Adrian only has 2 TDs to support the fact that our red zone offense has been dreadful.. I'm just pointing out that that should tell you something.

    And I don't give a **** what Ponder has said. Of course he is going to take the blame. He is the QB and he's a person that totally puts everything on his shoulders. It's just who he is. You can't sit here and tell me with a straight face that its Ponders fault with some of these plays that have been called. When you sit there and say WTF are we doing it doesn't come from Ponder. It's coming from Musgrave and its OBVIOUS. Our offense can operate between the 20s pretty darn good but for some reason when we get down into the red zone musgrave goes MISSING. He can't call worth **** in the red zone.

  10. #25
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    I know because Musgrave is totally to blame for Ponder thinking his receivers were Harlem Globetrotters, and for that white chinned gazelle running up and down the field like he was avoiding the bondage of slavery. There is no reason we should have lost this game. I know it was basically decided by one person, but it's still inexcusable. We should fire Musgrave, then fire the rest of the coaching staff, then trade all of our players for a box of frozen pre-cooked lamb chops and eat them together while reminiscing on how stupid this thread was.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom Listens View Post
    I know because Musgrave is totally to blame for Ponder thinking his receivers were Harlem Globetrotters, and for that white chinned gazelle running up and down the field like he was avoiding the bondage of slavery. There is no reason we should have lost this game. I know it was basically decided by one person, but it's still inexcusable. We should fire Musgrave, then fire the rest of the coaching staff, then trade all of our players for a box of frozen pre-cooked lamb chops and eat them together while reminiscing on how stupid this thread was.
    Was it an overreaction? Sure. Do you watch the games? By this post here it makes it seem that you don't. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the play calling has been absolutely dreadful in the red zone. You guys keep talking about our receivers yet a man named Cecil Shorts has been lighting it up with Blaine Gabbert at QB.. So continue to tell yourselves that Musgrave isn't the problem.

    Would it hurt us more if we fired him now? Probably.. But are we going to lose a bunch of games this season due to the terrible play calling? Absolutely.

    So thanks for your insight "wisdom listens" because I'm not listening to that lmao

  12. #27
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    By the way I really love all the froufrou words you used in your post. You must be so intelligent.

  13. #28
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    Musgrave is not entirely at fault here. Sure I question some play calling in general but if you watch other football games (I have Sunday ticket) every team seems to go thru that at one point as well. The fact is we don't quite have the talent in our WR's outside of Harvin. Conservative plays allow us not to beat ourselves because last year we all know that TO's killed us. Ponder also has the green light to check his plays from pass to run or vice versa.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    Musgrave is not entirely at fault here. Sure I question some play calling in general but if you watch other football games (I have Sunday ticket) every team seems to go thru that at one point as well. The fact is we don't quite have the talent in our WR's outside of Harvin. Conservative plays allow us not to beat ourselves because last year we all know that TO's killed us. Ponder also has the green light to check his plays from pass to run or vice versa.
    I think everyone is overvaluing these wrs worth inthe red one. Sure a handful of wrs are deadly on the fade ball, but the TE is the most dangerous player in TE redzone on most teams and the fact is when we use Rudolph we have scored 5 Tds. Outside of those 5 td drives there hasn't been a play called for him, why was he blocking on 3/5 redzone trips last week? Cause the other team is watching him?
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  15. #30
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    Fire Musgrave cus we gave up 38 points to the Redskins!!!

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