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  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Here in America, we wouldn't have freedom of speech if it weren't for those glorious souls over at the NHLPA.
    Without the NHLPA it would constitute illegal collusion for the NHL to place any artificial limit on player salaries.
    To see how a non-unionized labor market works take a look at the English Premier League. Players claim 70% of the leagues revenue.
    Under the previous NHL CBA, an individual player salary was capped at 20% of the team salary cap.
    There are 500 players on EPL rosters, and the top 2% the top 10 players claim 3.66% of total revenues. There are 690 players on NHL rosters, and the top 2% the top 14 NHL players claim 3.80% of total revenues. Since the NHL is a world wide market that % would most likely rise.
    The reason the owners want the PA because it allows wealthy teams to not have to pay as much on salaries while allowing more teams to be competitive in weaker markets.
    I agree the December offer wasn't bad other then the 5 year contract limits & that it took so long to be put on the table.
    The fact that these offers continue to be "take it or leave it" without negotiation puts blame on the owners for the lockout.
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-22-2012 at 11:46 PM.

  2. #962
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    The problem with the PA is that they are getting their $$$ kicked in these negotiations.
    The NBA NFL & NHL would all be better off without them but they won't change anytime soon because of the cost of the transition.
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-22-2012 at 10:37 PM.

  3. #963
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    Michigan just passed a "right to work" law, Can't the Wings just head over to the Joe and start warming up?

  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by westhockeytown View Post
    Michigan just passed a "right to work" law, Can't the Wings just head over to the Joe and start warming up?
    Right to work legislation only means the right to work for less.
    check out http://griffinshockey.com/
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-23-2012 at 03:15 PM.

  5. #965
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    Actually it allows workers to choose to be in a union or not if a union is represented in you place of business.

    And I'm fully aware that GR has a team. I live there. They aren't broadcast on tv at all and I can't afford to shell out $35.00 to a game to get my hockey fix.
    Last edited by westhockeytown; 12-23-2012 at 08:50 PM.

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by westhockeytown View Post
    Actually it allows workers to choose to be in a union or not if a union is represented in you place of business.

    And I'm fully aware that GR has a team. I live there. They aren't broadcast on tv at all and I can't afford to shell out $35.00 to a game to get my hockey fix.
    Right to work is a partisan maneuver from the Republican party. It has everything to do with politics & lobbyist. People vote for them based on good morals but instead get a different agenda, corporate profits.
    Right-to-work legislation does not lead to job growth and higher pay for workers. Economic studies have shown that the "evidence is overwhelming" that "right-to-work" laws have not boosted employment or wages in states that have adopted them. Other studies have found that wages for both union and non-union workers are lower in states with right-to-work laws. Others have found that workplace safety suffers in right-to-work states, where workers are less likely to secure job safety enhancements beyond federal and state regulations.
    However, I don't care who you vote for.

    A lot of AHL teams have flex passes, you would have to buy 10 minimum I think at around 15-20 each.
    or you could try AHL Live from their website.
    I'm going to buy AHL live at midseason price if the NHL season is canceled.
    You also have Ferris State, Michigan, Michigan State,or Western Michigan
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-23-2012 at 11:10 PM.

  7. #967
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    NHL and NHLPA will likely meet again wed. 26th, sides seem to be in contact now
    Fehr seems to be willing to give up on the 10 year CBA if Bettman gives up on 5 year limited contract lengths.
    Most likely will be split to either a 6 or 7 year limit.
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-23-2012 at 11:21 PM.

  8. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    Right to work is a partisan maneuver from the Republican party. It has everything to do with politics & lobbyist. People vote for them based on good morals but instead get a different agenda, corporate profits.
    Right-to-work legislation does not lead to job growth and higher pay for workers. Economic studies have shown that the "evidence is overwhelming" that "right-to-work" laws have not boosted employment or wages in states that have adopted them. Other studies have found that wages for both union and non-union workers are lower in states with right-to-work laws. Others have found that workplace safety suffers in right-to-work states, where workers are less likely to secure job safety enhancements beyond federal and state regulations.
    However, I don't care who you vote for.

    A lot of AHL teams have flex passes, you would have to buy 10 minimum I think at around 15-20 each.
    or you could try AHL Live from their website.
    I'm going to buy AHL live at midseason price if the NHL season is canceled.
    You also have Ferris State, Michigan, Michigan State,or Western Michigan
    I was pretty much joking about the right to work bit.
    I know all the options for hockey in MI. Just not the same as the Wings. I had high hopes when Fox Sports DET came to GR to show one Griffs game that it might turn into something more substantial. But it didn't. GR was invaded by the Redwing brass though. That's pretty surreal.

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    Without the NHLPA it would constitute illegal collusion for the NHL to place any artificial limit on player salaries.
    To see how a non-unionized labor market works take a look at the English Premier League. Players claim 70% of the leagues revenue.
    Under the previous NHL CBA, an individual player salary was capped at 20% of the team salary cap.
    There are 500 players on EPL rosters, and the top 2% the top 10 players claim 3.66% of total revenues. There are 690 players on NHL rosters, and the top 2% the top 14 NHL players claim 3.80% of total revenues. Since the NHL is a world wide market that % would most likely rise.
    The reason the owners want the PA because it allows wealthy teams to not have to pay as much on salaries while allowing more teams to be competitive in weaker markets.
    I agree the December offer wasn't bad other then the 5 year contract limits & that it took so long to be put on the table.
    The fact that these offers continue to be "take it or leave it" without negotiation puts blame on the owners for the lockout.
    I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be a union. Giving credit to Fehr for allowing a salary cap when he's specifically trying to do away with it is pretty backwards.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Your points were all solid here. I don't think anything you said was either addressed or refuted. Good post.
    OK, so I'm the one who's in the dark about negotiationg right?

    However, offering 57 as a starting point when negotiating down to 50 is insulting, really? Anyone who's ever negotiated anything knows you start high.

    Maybe you'll get your way and the league will collapse.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  11. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697:24846590
    NHL and NHLPA will likely meet again wed. 26th, sides seem to be in contact now
    Fehr seems to be willing to give up on the 10 year CBA if Bettman gives up on 5 year limited contract lengths.
    Most likely will be split to either a 6 or 7 year limit.
    Good I still think a deal is done around the new year






  12. #972
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Here in America, we wouldn't have freedom of speech if it weren't for those glorious souls over at the NHLPA.
    Here in America, we would have a lot more in the way of good things if people would stop this ****ing myth of a "job creator" class and stop villainizing unions without ****ing doing even the smallest amount of research.

    The owners know that the large majority of American hockey fans think that they're the noble job creators fighting "greedy" players. I'm a fairly Republican guy, but I find it absolutely despicable how willfully ignorant people are for the unadulterated greed of the so-called "job creators".

    You are rooting for literal cartoon villains if you side with the NHL.

  13. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by YanksFan4Life View Post
    Here in America, we would have a lot more in the way of good things if people would stop this ****ing myth of a "job creator" class and stop villainizing unions without ****ing doing even the smallest amount of research.

    The owners know that the large majority of American hockey fans think that they're the noble job creators fighting "greedy" players. I'm a fairly Republican guy, but I find it absolutely despicable how willfully ignorant people are for the unadulterated greed of the so-called "job creators".

    You are rooting for literal cartoon villains if you side with the NHL.
    Actually, it's the complete opposite. Most people blindly side with the players before looking at any of the details.

    Your last sentence sums up the situation for most. The billionaires are EVIL!!!

    As far as job creation goes... there's' about 10-15 owners that pay an entire roster of players 50+ million only to lose money when the season's over. What a bunch of cartoon villians, right?
    Last edited by fingerbang; 12-25-2012 at 12:40 PM.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  14. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Actually, it's the complete opposite. Most people blindly side with the players before looking at any of the details.

    Your last sentence sums up the situation for most. The billionaires are EVIL!!!

    As far as job creation goes... there's' about 10-15 owners that pay an entire roster of players 50+ million only to lose money when the season's over. What a bunch of cartoon villians, right?
    That's not true because the teams value have gone way up so if they were to sell the team now they would make huge profits. We now have a hockey team in the NHL worth a Billion dollars (Toronto).
    Fehr has also agreed to the immediate split with the make whole so if they wanted to get back to business today & start making profits they could. Instead they chose to continue the lockout for 5 year contracts limits. Its not a hill to die on & everyone knows it.
    Your siding with the owners blindly if you think this is about saving teams with losses. Instead its "Bettman get us what the NBA has!" The goal of Bettman & the NHL is to put more teams in US markets for national TV coverage.
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-25-2012 at 02:28 PM.

  15. #975
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    Merry Christmas everyone

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