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  1. #16
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    China's already bought the lithium rights, as well as copper from Aghanistan. I believe that happened between 12 and 24 months ago. So lithium is not our motivation. As for opium, most of Afghanistan's opium goes into the southeast asia and euopean markets, according to the UN reports from 2005-2009. The US heroin/ opium market is imported primarily from South America, I believe.

    For that matter, I say given all those amazing contracts China got, let those **** wads handle Afghanistan security from here forward. We've given enough.

    Bring our folks home. When we find a terrorist cell, let the Special Ops and OGA guys handle it. They are better suited for that kind of mission anyway. That, and the Afghans we train are more and more frequently just turning their guns on the US and British soldiers training them.

    This is not worth one more flagged drapped coffin.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    China's already bought the lithium rights, as well as copper from Aghanistan. I believe that happened between 12 and 24 months ago. So lithium is not our motivation. As for opium, most of Afghanistan's opium goes into the southeast asia and euopean markets, according to the UN reports from 2005-2009. The US heroin/ opium market is imported primarily from South America, I believe.

    For that matter, I say given all those amazing contracts China got, let those **** wads handle Afghanistan security from here forward. We've given enough.

    Bring our folks home. When we find a terrorist cell, let the Special Ops and OGA guys handle it. They are better suited for that kind of mission anyway. That, and the Afghans we train are more and more frequently just turning their guns on the US and British soldiers training them.

    This is not worth one more flagged drapped coffin.
    This x1000.

    The US has no business trying to police Afghanistan. Or the rest of the Middle East for that matter. The US has national interests that need to be protected, true. But that's something that can be dealt with on a as happens basis. It does not need the US to spend it sons and daughters and treasure around the world trying to be the planet's mom.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    This x1000.

    The US has no business trying to police Afghanistan. Or the rest of the Middle East for that matter. The US has national interests that need to be protected, true. But that's something that can be dealt with on a as happens basis. It does not need the US to spend it sons and daughters and treasure around the world trying to be the planet's mom.
    When our national interests trump human life, the state of our economy, and our safety(by creating more terrorists), there's a HUGE problem. Profit and control of natural resources cannot trump all else.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post

    This is not worth one more flagged drapped coffin.
    I agree 100 percent. It wasn't worth a single one in the first place. Neither of Bush the Lesser's wars were.
    I'm going to list ALEC in credits as associate producer of creating horrifying things for us to talk about -John Oliver

    People who think the least powerful members of society are responsible for most of its problems are deluded, at best.

  5. #20
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    I have a more hawkish view on these issues.

    We are not in afghanistan for afghanistans sake.
    We have always and will always continue to increase our presence in parts of the world that represent a potential security risk to us.
    We didnt go into Vietnam for the Vietnamese.we went in becasue the expansion of a communist regime represented gains for the soviet coalition.

    Once china started to behave in a defensive posture to the Soviets,vietnam was no longer a strategic neccesity.

    afgahanistan Borders Pakistan and Iran.We want to be in Bi tch slapping distance to both of those countries.we have followed the same 'encroachment" philosophy since we slaughtered the american Indians.
    If you piss us off we set up camp on your door step and say 'now what ,punk?"
    Since the fall of the soviet Union, we have been moving eastward, unbeknownst to most of the posters in here.we are closing bases in Europe and moving them into Turkmenistan,and any other surronding areas that will allow us in,its been going on for 20 years now.
    Our Policy has always been to systematically confront any and every enemy we have.
    some nations, like Argentina talk crap, but do not take one single solitary political/financial/military action that might get them in hot water...we leave them alone.

    Anyone else better mind there Ps and Qs.
    Right or wrong that is who we are.

    We aint goin nowhere fellas.better get used to it.
    It took 50 years to get us out of Germany.
    the end result is pretty remarkable.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    I have a more hawkish view on these issues.

    We are not in afghanistan for afghanistans sake.
    We have always and will always continue to increase our presence in parts of the world that represent a potential security risk to us.
    We didnt go into Vietnam for the Vietnamese.we went in becasue the expansion of a communist regime represented gains for the soviet coalition.

    Once china started to behave in a defensive posture to the Soviets,vietnam was no longer a strategic neccesity.

    afgahanistan Borders Pakistan and Iran.We want to be in Bi tch slapping distance to both of those countries.we have followed the same 'encroachment" philosophy since we slaughtered the american Indians.
    If you piss us off we set up camp on your door step and say 'now what ,punk?"
    Since the fall of the soviet Union, we have been moving eastward, unbeknownst to most of the posters in here.we are closing bases in Europe and moving them into Turkmenistan,and any other surronding areas that will allow us in,its been going on for 20 years now.
    Our Policy has always been to systematically confront any and every enemy we have.
    some nations, like Argentina talk crap, but do not take one single solitary political/financial/military action that might get them in hot water...we leave them alone.

    Anyone else better mind there Ps and Qs.
    Right or wrong that is who we are.

    We aint goin nowhere fellas.better get used to it.
    It took 50 years to get us out of Germany.
    the end result is pretty remarkable.
    Has invading and occupying these countries for over a decade made us more safe in some way? Let me add that Germany was no a primitive tribal society when we invaded it, but the remains of one of the most industrialized nations in the world. Afghanistan is not, and will not be in the foreseeable future, anything like Germany was or is. Afghanistan will be violent, repressive tribal shithole when we leave, just as it was when we went in. Just like it was before the USSR went in, and after they left. Just like it was before the British went in, and after they left it. Much like Iraq was before we went in. . . before the British went in. . . rinse, repeat.

    We have no business over there, and never did. We have apparently harmed our national interest by borrowing trillions to pay for the pointless exercise there, and liberally spilled blood across the region. We've generated several millions refugees. We've aggravated relations with the Muslim world, given that we are now regularly drone bombing funerals, rescuers, and civilians. What we have done is a debacle and a crime.

    As with many other things, this President has done a passable job trying to pull the car out of the ditch where Cheney and Bush's Big Adventure left it. I wish he would pull it out quicker, but the bloody mud there is deep.
    I'm going to list ALEC in credits as associate producer of creating horrifying things for us to talk about -John Oliver

    People who think the least powerful members of society are responsible for most of its problems are deluded, at best.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sota4Ever View Post
    Haha wouldn't expect anything else out of you.. Bravo.

    Also Romney has said we will slowly take them out. It was Obama that PROMISED to take the soldiers out by 2014. I think Biden even said this at the VP debate, and when Paul ryan said to slowly take them out Biden laughed. I love how people like you try to put this back on Romney. Like what Obama tried to do with immigration and the Benghazi attack.
    I am not trying to put anything back on Romney. I am implying that if you believe what FlipFlop Romney, who's been proven to say what he has to say to look good, is saying he will do, you are in for a huge disappointment.

    Actually, 2 disappointments:

    1 - If you think he will do what he says.

    2 - If you think he actually will win

    Props.LgnD.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc_Wr3aker View Post
    I am not trying to put anything back on Romney. I am implying that if you believe what FlipFlop Romney, who's been proven to say what he has to say to look good, is saying he will do, you are in for a huge disappointment.

    Actually, 2 disappointments:

    1 - If you think he will do what he says.

    2 - If you think he actually will win
    Haha you so funny...

    You were the only one that brought up Romney. No one else in the thread even talked about Romney.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labgrownmangoat View Post
    Has invading and occupying these countries for over a decade made us more safe in some way? Let me add that Germany was no a primitive tribal society when we invaded it, but the remains of one of the most industrialized nations in the world. Afghanistan is not, and will not be in the foreseeable future, anything like Germany was or is. Afghanistan will be violent, repressive tribal shithole when we leave, just as it was when we went in. Just like it was before the USSR went in, and after they left. Just like it was before the British went in, and after they left it. Much like Iraq was before we went in. . . before the British went in. . . rinse, repeat.

    We have no business over there, and never did. We have apparently harmed our national interest by borrowing trillions to pay for the pointless exercise there, and liberally spilled blood across the region. We've generated several millions refugees. We've aggravated relations with the Muslim world, given that we are now regularly drone bombing funerals, rescuers, and civilians. What we have done is a debacle and a crime.

    As with many other things, this President has done a passable job trying to pull the car out of the ditch where Cheney and Bush's Big Adventure left it. I wish he would pull it out quicker, but the bloody mud there is deep.
    Not neccessarily defending a course of action, just defining our actions in an honest way.We are there and everywhere else we are in the world becuase we like to be in a threatening posture.
    we surrond potential enemies from as many sides as we can.We want them too feel our Hot breath on the backs of their necks.We want to know what they are doing as they are doing it.
    Like I had began my post with, this is not, nor has it ever been about Afghanistan.It is about reaching out and touching some one QUICKLY if we decide they need to be touched.
    Im not sure how I feel about it to be honest.
    We praise diversity, when diversity causes conflict.
    Homogenous nations tend to be more focused in their efforts because nearly everyone is in agreement on a course of action,or a set of beliefs.

    Personally,i would tend to err on the side of caution, that is to say Id have already kicked the sh out of Iran, for no other reason then to make sure they understand I will not tolerate any hostility from anyone.
    I know that is reactionary ,but Im a soilder.

  10. #25
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    So you would go try and blow Iran up for what exactly? Who have they been hostile to?

    So no bomb, no delivery capability and you would send our son's and daughters over there to die?

    That isn't soldier speak, those are the words and thoughts of a maniac my friend.
    Last edited by Randy West; 10-19-2012 at 11:11 AM.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  11. #26
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    Well considering randy I that I have completed 4 enlistments in the armed services i would beg to differ with you.
    Its funny, the reason "a few good Men" is such an impactful movie, is everything jack Nichols character said at the end is absolutely true.

    I dont understand our need for divisiveness Randy, i really dont.
    I dont get why Protestants and Catholics kill each other when they worship the same God.
    I dont get why street Kids are willing to kill their best friend if he moves to a neighborhood where he now has to wear Red instead of Blue.

    I dont get why sunnis and Shia and Jews focus on the smaller points of differnce in their beliefs,and ignore the overwhelming commonality at the cores of their faiths.

    I dont get why raiders fans have to get drunk and kick the crap out of anyone that roots for a different team.

    I dont have the answers.
    what i do know is we have over 2000 years of history that suggests it is at the core of our nature to kill each other.Like I said, Im a soilder randy,You go Hug it out with them, I hope it works out,My roll is to be the Hammer if the other tools in the shed dont work.
    I take no particular Joy in that,like what most people wind up doing or being it is a culmination of unrelated life experiences that brought me to that place.

    what I do know is that vigilance is a neccesity,allowing any form of hostility or agression,is a bad idea.when The Theocarsy Is "saber rattling", they need to know who they are F ing with.I feel that way becasue it had been my job to be the one going Over there to die.

    right or wrong is irrelevant to a soilder.
    The Iraq War was a bunch of bulls..t.....so what?
    most of us knew that.Once there is a problem,all that matters is who is walking away from it.
    In a nut shell,as long as they are acting and speaking in a boisterous and confrontational manner,my training tells me that you hit first,and you keep hitting until your absolutely sure that your message was recieved.

    right or wrong, if that was the tact that was taken in the occupied territories ,I dont think that that problem would be festering 50 years latter.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubbiefan_est88 View Post
    Knew it lol God I hope this gets brought up tonight.
    Bet you it will not be brought up. Both parties are tied to the idea that we will be in that region for a long time. Military bases to cover the oilfields, keep the money rolling in for the military industries and keep those poppies field blooming.

  13. #28
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    Would you like comparing service jackets or something? Eight years in the USMC and sent to kill in two different countries for nothing. It all changed nothing but me, my life will never be the same because of it. I don't want that for my kids, everyone I know that has seen the horrors of war wouldn't want that for their kids or any kids for that matter either.

    I don't mind the hit first and keep hitting until the fight is over BS the corp's fills you're head with. You need a reason to hit and imo a bunch of bs grandstanding isn't reason enough at this point.

    Iran has been running their mouth and Israel has been putting words in their mouths for almost twenty five years and for what? To drag us all into another pointless war. I don't say this lightly having an uncle that served in the IDF and family I never see and probably won't again still residing there.

    What would you expect Iran to do? I know I would try arming myself as a deterrent to any aggression from Israel. I don't believe a nuclear Iran is a good thing the Israeli's with American and British help started this arms race not Iran. Imo the only good solution is no nukes in the middle east period no matter whose side you are on.

    I also don't care about some speech some clown in hollywierd came up with in the script department. It means nothing in the real world, it's just crap. Until Iran tries pulling some Red Dawn movie BS here I could careless what they "talk" about doing. If something changes and there is actual reason to confront actual aggression from them that would be a different story.

    You want to send kids off to war all I can say is yours first. I am doing all I can to make sure mine go to college.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    China's already bought the lithium rights, as well as copper from Aghanistan. I believe that happened between 12 and 24 months ago. So lithium is not our motivation. As for opium, most of Afghanistan's opium goes into the southeast asia and euopean markets, according to the UN reports from 2005-2009. The US heroin/ opium market is imported primarily from South America, I believe.

    For that matter, I say given all those amazing contracts China got, let those **** wads handle Afghanistan security from here forward. We've given enough.

    Bring our folks home. When we find a terrorist cell, let the Special Ops and OGA guys handle it. They are better suited for that kind of mission anyway. That, and the Afghans we train are more and more frequently just turning their guns on the US and British soldiers training them.

    This is not worth one more flagged drapped coffin.
    Good infro on the china's money interest in afghanistan. It makes sense for china's to bankroll our actions there, since we would also protect their interest. Cost of owing so much to china, gets them access to our area of influences. I wonder what else they gain by bankrolling us?

    The drug money is to big to be just a criminal enterprise, it also could have the support of national leaders. The opium wars in China during the 1800's was sponser by euorpeans to maintain their global empire. With the world in global recession, I can see governments doing this now. CIA has been outed in the past for dealing with drugs for their gain.
    Last edited by WES445; 10-19-2012 at 03:55 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    the Afghans we train are more and more frequently just turning their guns on the US and British soldiers training them.
    lol, really?

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