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  1. #61
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    when Obama was elected and he wanted to win the "right" war, he engaged the Miltary leadership and they told him an Iraqi style surge would get the Job done.

    he gave them what they asked for and it didnt work, times up.
    If you blame him for even trying thats your perogative, but he took the advice of his men on the ground and gave them a crack at it.

  2. #62
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    Its time to get out of Dodge. Afghanistan is not, and never has been a place where foreign entities have done well. We allowed ourselves to get caught up in mission creep. We can't fix Afghanistan without doing some really legally shady **** in Pakistan. My thought would be to maintain some form of special operations missions to continue, but other than that, its time to go home.

  3. #63
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    personally I would colonize the place.
    the notion that Aghanistan is unconquerable is somewhat of a myth.It is lawless and structurless so the conventional methodology is useless, but ultimately its lack of a legitimate centralized Government will forvever allow for illicit activity to exisit.

    I would homestead the entire country,screw the locals.
    I realize how ugly It sounds, but mark my words we will be back again in a few years when religious extremists find fertile ground to train and scheme without interference.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    personally I would colonize the place.
    the notion that Aghanistan is unconquerable is somewhat of a myth.It is lawless and structurless so the conventional methodology is useless, but ultimately its lack of a legitimate centralized Government will forvever allow for illicit activity to exisit.

    I would homestead the entire country,screw the locals.
    I realize how ugly It sounds, but mark my words we will be back again in a few years when religious extremists find fertile ground to train and scheme without interference.
    I don't think the Afghans will ever accept a centralized government of any kind, which is part of why our efforts there are screwed. If they had a government where the bulk of influence derived from the provincial level governments, it might stand a chance, IMO. But now even that is hampered through restrictions on taxation by the national level government. Until local government there can start taxing (and then actually budgeting), nothing there is going to work for long, again IMO

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    Its time to get out of Dodge. Afghanistan is not, and never has been a place where foreign entities have done well. We allowed ourselves to get caught up in mission creep. We can't fix Afghanistan without doing some really legally shady **** in Pakistan. My thought would be to maintain some form of special operations missions to continue, but other than that, its time to go home.
    Totally agree!

    Afghanistan is the best example ever of a lose-lose scenario. Let's get the **** out and leave them to get on with it. Once the extreme loonies take over again we can do whatever might be seriously considered to be in our national interest with drones and special ops, not that I personally approve of that kind of thing.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    Totally agree!

    Afghanistan is the best example ever of a lose-lose scenario. Let's get the **** out and leave them to get on with it. Once the extreme loonies take over again we can do whatever might be seriously considered to be in our national interest with drones and special ops, not that I personally approve of that kind of thing.
    I believe our main objective once leaving(if we ever leave) is to ensure that they don't harbor extremist, coordinated terrorist cells like they did with Al Qeada. Personally I am not worried about the Taliban who are only fighting us b/c we're bombing their country. They are primitive people who cannot create a 9/11-style attack on the United States.

  7. #67
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    ^ your right about that schmooze, but lets not bury our heads in the sand here, the Taliban are religious extremists who have regularly used sharia law as punishment for crimes, stoning people to death,honor killings, the whole 9, so while it certainly isnt our place to be policing the world, in this case, given the 30 year history of instability,heroin distribution,terrorist training and the likes, I would have simply said thats it, we are done with the helping hand approach, Afghanistan is now "Cooperland",or "McGuirestan", I would have opened it up for corporate exploitation,and civilian homesteading and the people could either emigrate or come out of the middle freaking ages.

    But mark my words, we will be back again.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    ^ your right about that schmooze, but lets not bury our heads in the sand here, the Taliban are religious extremists who have regularly used sharia law as punishment for crimes, stoning people to death,honor killings, the whole 9, so while it certainly isnt our place to be policing the world, in this case, given the 30 year history of instability,heroin distribution,terrorist training and the likes, I would have simply said thats it, we are done with the helping hand approach, Afghanistan is now "Cooperland",or "McGuirestan", I would have opened it up for corporate exploitation,and civilian homesteading and the people could either emigrate or come out of the middle freaking ages.

    But mark my words, we will be back again.
    I would agree with the human rights motives to remain engaged with Afghanistan in one form or the other, if historically AND presently we hadn't been one of the main causes for these atrocities to occur in the first place(as you know). Even if we had no influence whatsoever, our foreign policy has also shown that we pick and choose when to step in and stop these abuses, and when to ignore them(see: Rwanda).

    I can definitely see us being forced to go back in the future though, absolutely. However my belief is we are put into a position where we're supposed to trust the people who caused the problem, to then find a solution to fix it.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    when Obama was elected and he wanted to win the "right" war, he engaged the Miltary leadership and they told him an Iraqi style surge would get the Job done.

    he gave them what they asked for and it didnt work, times up.
    If you blame him for even trying thats your perogative, but he took the advice of his men on the ground and gave them a crack at it.
    Oh god. He blatantly lied to the American people to help his election chances

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    Its time to get out of Dodge. Afghanistan is not, and never has been a place where foreign entities have done well. We allowed ourselves to get caught up in mission creep. We can't fix Afghanistan without doing some really legally shady **** in Pakistan. My thought would be to maintain some form of special operations missions to continue, but other than that, its time to go home.
    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    . . . But mark my words, we will be back again.
    I'm with Pats [his football team blows, BTW]. He's right about this. Time to GTFO.

    steph, if we need to go back, then we need to go back. It has to be easier and cheaper than staying there forever.

    Gotta give the US credit for doing the difficult thing though. Viet Nam and Afghanistan, hard to pick two harder places to fight in.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    I'm with Pats [his football team blows, BTW]. He's right about this. Time to GTFO.

    steph, if we need to go back, then we need to go back. It has to be easier and cheaper than staying there forever.

    Gotta give the US credit for doing the difficult thing though. Viet Nam and Afghanistan, hard to pick two harder places to fight in.
    1/20/13- The Ray Lewis retirement party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In Foxboro!!!!! Its gonna be wicked awesome...

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    1/20/13- The Ray Lewis retirement party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In Foxboro!!!!! Its gonna be wicked awesome...
    Yeah, much as it pains me to say it, I expect the Patriots to win easily. They seem to be clearly the best team in the league. Hope the NFC game is close, because the rest of the season should be boring for those of us not living in New England.

  13. #73
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    @ ewing
    LOL,
    come again?
    do tell..I havent heard this one yet....

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    1/20/13- The Ray Lewis retirement party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In Foxboro!!!!! Its gonna be wicked awesome...
    Since I don't have a team, and, my son's in-laws live in a Boston suburb, I will cheer for your team.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

  15. #75
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    since I cant get Ewing to bite, would those of you who are not fans of the dem. agenda please stop demonizing Obama.

    The guy is the most conservative president weve had in about 100 years.
    The fact that the R party has moved far right doesnt change that.
    He has not been a " fan" of big spending, but has taken the advice of the Tim Geihtners of the world who are in the pockets of wall street.

    THAT IS NOTHING KNEW.Obama is not an Economic Genius, no president has EVER been.
    Besides allowing the banks to control our way out of the recession, which any R president would have done as well, all he has done is protect the social programs that people have loved for 70 years.
    Outside of that ,everything he has done, has been more conservative then reagan,Bush1 or 2,
    Why you allow the RT. Media to use you like a walking aplifier for the nonsense they spout is alarming to sayt the least.

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