Holmgren Out/ Banner In as Expected.

[delfinko]

I have heard from a number of multiple reports that a lot of inside people are saying that the first people in the offseason that Haslam/Banner will go after will be Michael Lombardi or Bill Polian for the GM position and then after that try to lure Jon Gruden back for the HC position.

Apparently it is being said that Haslam wants to bring in a lot of experience individuals in their roles and not individuals that it would be their first go of it in that position such as GM or HC.

I get the point of bringing in the experienced GM. That makes sense, and I know you are just repeating what you've heard, but former head coaching experience at the NFL level really seems to be irrelevant. Just take a look at some of the names from over the last 4 or 5 years that were hired as first time NFL head coaches.

Seems like, or are good hires:
-Harbaugh (both)
-Tomlin
-Mike Smith
-Schwartz
-Whisenhunt
-Leslie Frazier (could still drop into the not so good)
-Hue Jackson (not given enough time)
-Joe Philban (still early and can easily change)
-Rex Ryan (probably better suited as a DC and not sure what happened here, but he's had some success)

Not so good:
-Jim Caldwell
-Mike Munchak (so far)
-Josh McDaniels
-Steve Spagnuola
-Raheem Morris

Some of my choices may be questionable, but I think the point is made that you don't have to hire an experienced HC. To get more specific, I really hope they don't hire Jon Gruden, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Cam Cameron, or Marty Mornhinweg, and there's plenty more names I could add to this list. That's just because I don't think they are anything special.

I'm on the outside looking in though as I don't get to watch every game being out of state. (the out of market games in Philadelphia are usually Pittsburgh, Baltimore and New England) Would you guys rather see a more offensive or defensive minded head coach?

[Melo15]

Honestly, I'm fine with either as long as they get a strong coordinator in whatever area is not their expertise.

[ottograham14]

I get the point of bringing in the experienced GM. That makes sense, and I know you are just repeating what you've heard, but former head coaching experience at the NFL level really seems to be irrelevant. Just take a look at some of the names from over the last 4 or 5 years that were hired as first time NFL head coaches.

Seems like, or are good hires:
-Harbaugh (both)
-Tomlin
-Mike Smith
-Schwartz
-Whisenhunt
-Leslie Frazier (could still drop into the not so good)
-Hue Jackson (not given enough time)
-Joe Philban (still early and can easily change)
-Rex Ryan (probably better suited as a DC and not sure what happened here, but he's had some success)

Not so good:
-Jim Caldwell
-Mike Munchak (so far)
-Josh McDaniels
-Steve Spagnuola
-Raheem Morris

Some of my choices may be questionable, but I think the point is made that you don't have to hire an experienced HC. To get more specific, I really hope they don't hire Jon Gruden, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Cam Cameron, or Marty Mornhinweg, and there's plenty more names I could add to this list. That's just because I don't think they are anything special.

I'm on the outside looking in though as I don't get to watch every game being out of state. (the out of market games in Philadelphia are usually Pittsburgh, Baltimore and New England) Would you guys rather see a more offensive or defensive minded head coach?

Putting two and two together though, look at who the two main owners were that Haslam went out of his way to talk to before taking ownership, Robert Kraft and Jerry Reese. Look at the two HC's they hired in Belicheck and Coughlin. Two no nonsense guys with a lot of HC'ing experience when they were brought in. I know that you can say that he was also with Rooney though and he took chances on first time HC's Cowher and Tomlin so you really don't know how to get a read on Jimmy yet with what he is looking for besides just speculation and rumors.

One thing seems certain though and that is Shurmur will not be back next year. If Haslam/Banner are talking about winning SB's then there is no way in my mind that they can look at a guy like Shurmur and think he can out coach the other top coaches in the NFL any time soon or in the future.

[delfinko]

^makes sense, I just think that we've seen the best we will out of the names I've mentioned.

Jon Gruden - hasn't succeeded with average teams, I know that's a no brainer, but for an offensive "genius" he won a super bowl with Tony Dungy's great defensive Buccs, and the offensive was never really any good under him

Tony Dungy - the complete opposite of Gruden. Defensive genius that only won a Super Bowl with a superiorly talented offensive team. (It's like these teams won in spite of their coaches strengths)

Brian Billick - the offensive mastermind behind the 1998 Vikings, his 2000 Baltimore Ravens offense was brutal, but that team won the Super Bowl because they had the best defense since the 1985 Bears

Cam Cameron - See 2007 Miami Dolphins, Also I don't like how he calls the offense in Baltimore. He's got the best RB in the league and he continues to have Flacco throw it 35 times per game.

Marty Mornhinweg - see Cam Cameron just change Flacco to Vick and best RB to a top 5 RB. Also, see 2001-2002 Detroit Lions.

Of that group, Gruden is probably the best, and most no nonsense, I'm just saying that I hope they go a different direction.

[Melo15]

Shurmur is such a great coach he continuously out coaches himself. That's pretty impressive.

[ottograham14]

^makes sense, I just think that we've seen the best we will out of the names I've mentioned.

Jon Gruden - hasn't succeeded with average teams, I know that's a no brainer, but for an offensive "genius" he won a super bowl with Tony Dungy's great defensive Buccs, and the offensive was never really any good under him

Tony Dungy - the complete opposite of Gruden. Defensive genius that only won a Super Bowl with a superiorly talented offensive team. (It's like these teams won in spite of their coaches strengths)

Brian Billick - the offensive mastermind behind the 1998 Vikings, his 2000 Baltimore Ravens offense was brutal, but that team won the Super Bowl because they had the best defense since the 1985 Bears

Cam Cameron - See 2007 Miami Dolphins, Also I don't like how he calls the offense in Baltimore. He's got the best RB in the league and he continues to have Flacco throw it 35 times per game.

Marty Mornhinweg - see Cam Cameron just change Flacco to Vick and best RB to a top 5 RB. Also, see 2001-2002 Detroit Lions.

Of that group, Gruden is probably the best, and most no nonsense, I'm just saying that I hope they go a different direction.

The only three names that I would want to come here right now from what I have read and followed this season if they did go the no-experience HC route would be David Shaw of Stanford even though he has exstensive experience in the NFL before going with Harbaugh to SDState and Stanford, Jay Gruden as I really like the way he runs the Bengals offense the FO just never gave him a legitimate RB or Secondary WR's IMO, and finally Winston Moss the LB coach for GB. I have read a lot on him saying that he is a very good Defensive minded no nonsense coach that players and other coaches respect and strive for. Other than that nobody really sticks out at me. Not really excited about Dana Hogleson from WVU or Chip Kelly from Oregon and I keep hearing them a lot from other forums and posters.

If I had to go with the list that you gave up there of experienced HC options then I would have to go with Gruden. After his piece on Real Sports with Gumbel you can tell the guy has so much passion for football and seems like he really wants to coach again. Add that to the fact that I think he would be very good for Weeden and that I think the rest off gave him some perspective on coaching and I wouldn't be unhappy if he came to Cleveland.

[43ScaresMe]

Read a quick recap of the interview Mike Folio had with Joe Banner about his plans going forward and he said that a switch to the 3-4 is a possibility. Also was quoted using several phrases as Clean slate , starting new , etc.

To me this sounds like a complete overhaul and even Banner himself said it'd be the last one we'd ever have. Not sure what to think, but I am more interested in watching players develop this year then worrying about their moves after the season.

We certainly have the depth at DT to still have a young talented 3-4 D line. Winn-Rubin-Taylor

[ottograham14]

Read a quick recap of the interview Mike Folio had with Joe Banner about his plans going forward and he said that a switch to the 3-4 is a possibility. Also was quoted using several phrases as Clean slate , starting new , etc.

To me this sounds like a complete overhaul and even Banner himself said it'd be the last one we'd ever have. Not sure what to think, but I am more interested in watching players develop this year then worrying about their moves after the season.

We certainly have the depth at DT to still have a young talented 3-4 D line. Winn-Rubin-Taylor

The biggest thing that Haslam and Banner keep saying is that everything will be evaluated at the end of the season. The only change right now personnel or business side is just Haslam and Banner coming in and Holmgren transitioning to leaving at the end of the year. Nothing else. That could mean they are looking at everything and everyone.

I don't think they switch to the 3-4. They will look a the strenghts of this team and realize that if they get an additional OLB and pass rush DE then the front 7 will be good to go for years with the youth and depth Heckert has built. Also Banner comes from a 4-3 D in Philly that he continually helped put together so I don't see him switching. Also I never want to see DQ play in a 3-4 again. If they talk about switching to the 3-4 then I will show up in Berea and just give them tape of DQ a couple years ago and that should be enough for them to change their minds not to mention the Brownies do not have anywhere close to the LB's besides DQ to switch to the 3-4.

[43ScaresMe]

I think Haslem saying Shurmur will have a fair shot at his job and won't be evaluated till after the season is very similar to Shurmur saying Colt McCoy will have a fair shot at QB at the beginning of the pre-season. The Irony.

[letsgobrownies7]

And when Holmgren did the same with Eric Manweeny.

[rhaas74]

Jon Gruden - hasn't succeeded with average teams, I know that's a no brainer, but for an offensive "genius" he won a super bowl with Tony Dungy's great defensive Buccs, and the offensive was never really any good under him.

This has always bothered me. Everyone forgets he was traded to the Bucs which gutted their future. He came in to a defensive team and was unable to bring young offensive guys in due to the trade.

To me it speaks to the fact that he can alter his gameplan to the talent that he has.

Not saying he will succeed here, let alone come here, but everyone forgets that he was traded.

[Stonevision]

I think that Haslem and Banner will do what most teams are doing these days. More teams are converting back to a 4 man front in their base defense due to the fact that they spend so much time in nickle means they need to get a pass rush from the d-line. The best team to watch is the New York Giants and their 8 man deep defensive line.

The Patriots switched back last year and their young roster is showing occasional glimpses of a great defense. The 49ers are one of the best defenses in the league as a 3-4 and they have been built over the last 5 or 6 years. The Browns don't have the same athletes on their roster and it would take some time to accumulate it.

Great point about DQ in the 3-4 Otto. When Mangini first came to town he couldn't find a spot for him among his favorites Barton and Bowens... Man I'm glad those days are over with. Jabaal Sheard could be a decent pass-rusher at the OLB position though.