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View Poll Results: Which Coach will get the most out the Eagles

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  • Andy Reid

    6 6.38%
  • Bill Cowher

    12 12.77%
  • Tony Dungy

    14 14.89%
  • Jon Gruden

    37 39.36%
  • Other (who?)

    25 26.60%
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  1. #391
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    This team confuses me....

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  2. #392
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    Still more interviews to come,so hopefully it won't be Kelly.There is still an outside shot of Gruden getting the job,and not John.

  3. #393
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    Chip Kelly sets this organization back 3 years if they hire him...gimmick crap doesn't play in the nfl
    2011 PSD Phillies Forum HOF Inductee


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  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by philsphan123 View Post
    Chip Kelly sets this organization back 3 years if they hire him...gimmick crap doesn't play in the nfl
    Yeah that air-raid gimmick totally doesn't work in the NFL......said every team who hasn't played the Patriots, Saints or Packers in the last 5 years. College offenses are permeating the NFL every day.

    Not to mention the Ducks don't run a gimmick offense. I'd suggest you actually read up on Chip Kelly before deciding he runs a gimmick. If you see how it works...it makes a ton of sense. It's more a strategy than a "gimmick". Calling it is a "gimmick" is an easy out by NFL fans. Now some of the triple-option plays that Kelly likes to run probably don't make the transition to the NFL very often. But the basic inside-outside zone read ideas could easily make the transition with the right type of a QB.

    Watch the videos. Tell me it's a gimmick. Then go watch Washington this year and tell me what they did that's, at the heart of it, any different than this.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 01-06-2013 at 10:09 AM.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Yeah that air-raid gimmick totally doesn't work in the NFL......said every team who hasn't played the Patriots, Saints or Packers in the last 5 years. College offenses are permeating the NFL every day.

    Not to mention the Ducks don't run a gimmick offense. I'd suggest you actually read up on Chip Kelly before deciding he runs a gimmick. If you see how it works...it makes a ton of sense. It's more a strategy than a "gimmick". Calling it is a "gimmick" is an easy out by NFL fans. Now some of the triple-option plays that Kelly likes to run probably don't make the transition to the NFL very often. But the basic inside-outside zone read ideas could easily make the transition with the right type of a QB.

    Watch the videos. Tell me it's a gimmick. Then go watch Washington this year and tell me what they did that's, at the heart of it, any different than this.

    Drew Brees, Brady and Rodgers. Using those teams for reasons why they throw all the time is stupid. I just named the 3 best QBs in the league. And those teams don't run gimmick offenses. If gimmick worked, everyteam would run it. Just like the wildcat. It had its time and it came and went.
    Thomas Jefferson - "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by philsphan123 View Post
    Chip Kelly sets this organization back 3 years if they hire him...gimmick crap doesn't play in the nfl
    I think he sets them back even longer. He has never won on the pro level. I rather go the coordinator route. Arians is my choice. He has coached for a long time in the pros and has won on good teams.
    Thomas Jefferson - "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJSF View Post
    Drew Brees, Brady and Rodgers. Using those teams for reasons why they throw all the time is stupid. I just named the 3 best QBs in the league. And those teams don't run gimmick offenses. If gimmick worked, everyteam would run it. Just like the wildcat. It had its time and it came and went.
    You're right, they don't run gimmick offenses. They run a variation of the college offense called the air-raid. They're running an offense amazingly similar to Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Texas A&M. They're sitting in the shot gun, hitting the slot receiver (hello Wes Welker and Randall Cobb) and spreading the defense thin, putting their better WR on the teams worse DB. They're using receiving RB's to run screens and RB dump offs. The air-raid offense is designed to do two things: take advantage of WR vs DB match ups and make the QB look like God on Earth. It's a chicken or an egg question. Is Drew Brees that good? Or is he in a system that literally plays to his every strength?

    The important thing, however, is that at it's outset, what the Saints were doing (they were effectively the first team to begin running this type of a system) was considered a gimmick. It wouldn't keep up. NFL teams would realize they were just passing every down, load up with their DB's and be just fine. We're now over 6 years later and Saints are still one of the two best examples of how to run a passing driven offense, despite teas knowing what they're going to do.

    Chip Kelly, doesn't run a gimmick offense, either. It plays on the defensive tendency to over read a play. They literally show you what they're going to run, and then play off of that over reaction, either by the QB keeping the read play (as the DE over commits to the inside/outside handoff) or hitting you with quick bubble screens, play action, or the RB (much like a McCoy) who bounces inside/outside plays to the open gaps. That's as much of an offensive strategy as the air-raid style of offenses we're seen being run in New Orleans, Green Bay, and New England. You've also got more and more teams running those offenses as well, as the Falcons have essentially transitioned into that offense, and the Lions have as well.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    You're right, they don't run gimmick offenses. They run a variation of the college offense called the air-raid. They're running an offense amazingly similar to Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Texas A&M. They're sitting in the shot gun, hitting the slot receiver (hello Wes Welker and Randall Cobb) and spreading the defense thin, putting their better WR on the teams worse DB. They're using receiving RB's to run screens and RB dump offs. The air-raid offense is designed to do two things: take advantage of WR vs DB match ups and make the QB look like God on Earth. It's a chicken or an egg question. Is Drew Brees that good? Or is he in a system that literally plays to his every strength?

    The important thing, however, is that at it's outset, what the Saints were doing (they were effectively the first team to begin running this type of a system) was considered a gimmick. It wouldn't keep up. NFL teams would realize they were just passing every down, load up with their DB's and be just fine. We're now over 6 years later and Saints are still one of the two best examples of how to run a passing driven offense, despite teas knowing what they're going to do.

    Chip Kelly, doesn't run a gimmick offense, either. It plays on the defensive tendency to over read a play. They literally show you what they're going to run, and then play off of that over reaction, either by the QB keeping the read play (as the DE over commits to the inside/outside handoff) or hitting you with quick bubble screens, play action, or the RB (much like a McCoy) who bounces inside/outside plays to the open gaps. That's as much of an offensive strategy as the air-raid style of offenses we're seen being run in New Orleans, Green Bay, and New England. You've also got more and more teams running those offenses as well, as the Falcons have essentially transitioned into that offense, and the Lions have as well.
    Unlike the Saints and Pats, Kelly's offense will never work in the NFL. The players are too fast to not block them. He gets away with that stuff at Oregon because most of the time they are the faster team and have the best athletes. That will never happen in the NFL.

    Also, there is a big difference between what the Skins are doing and what Kelly will do. The Skins put in certain plays that benefit the type of QB they have in RGIII, much like the Eagles did with Vick. They are not basing their entire system on that type of QB. Kurt Cousins had success this year as well.

    A good coach would build a system around the QB that he has and not vice versa. There is already talk of keeping Vick over Foles if Kelly becomes coach, which would be a huge mistake. A good NFL calibur coach would play to his QBs strenths. If Vick was the QB they would put in some of those Skins type plays and if Foles was the QB they wouldn't. That most likely won't happen if Kelly is the coach. His offense is not just different as you suggest...it's based on something that has NEVER worked in the NFL because the athletes are just too good. The difference between that and what the Saints and Pats do is that pass heavy offenses have worked in the NFL....(see Houston and Waren Moon and the Rams and Kurt Warner).

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Unlike the Saints and Pats, Kelly's offense will never work in the NFL. The players are too fast to not block them. He gets away with that stuff at Oregon because most of the time they are the faster team and have the best athletes. That will never happen in the NFL.

    Also, there is a big difference between what the Skins are doing and what Kelly will do. The Skins put in certain plays that benefit the type of QB they have in RGIII, much like the Eagles did with Vick. They are not basing their entire system on that type of QB. Kurt Cousins had success this year as well.

    A good coach would build a system around the QB that he has and not vice versa. There is already talk of keeping Vick over Foles if Kelly becomes coach, which would be a huge mistake. A good NFL calibur coach would play to his QBs strenths. If Vick was the QB they would put in some of those Skins type plays and if Foles was the QB they wouldn't. That most likely won't happen if Kelly is the coach. His offense is not just different as you suggest...it's based on something that has NEVER worked in the NFL because the athletes are just too good. The difference between that and what the Saints and Pats do is that pass heavy offenses have worked in the NFL....(see Houston and Waren Moon and the Rams and Kurt Warner).
    The problem is the belief that Chip Kelly will walk into Philadelphia or Cleveland next season with his 2012-2013 Oregon playbook and install the exact same offense. Of course he wont, he's not an idiot. And he doesn't seem to run in the same Steve Spurier mold of being too much of an ego maniac to realize that his former college players will work in the NFL as long as he's the coach.

    We've seen every aspect of the base Oregon offense in the NFL. Zone blocking scheme? Check - that's worked amazingly well for Shannahan and Kubiak, don't ya think? Running out of the shot gun formation? Shannahan this year in Washington and McCoy last year using Tebow to any sense of effectiveness showed us how that can work. RG3 was used in many read plays this season. Hell, just last night, the only drive the Vikings went read-option resulted in Joe ****ing Webb leading them down the field effectively (although for some reason Frazier scrapped that for the rest of the game). Up tempo offense? Go look at the Patriots (who, by the way, If I remember correctly, actually met with Chip Kelly to add that aspect of their offense) and watch how up-tempo they run.

    You will obviously see a grown up style. You'll see less bubble screen, almost zero of the double-side option play that they run. But the basic principals of Kelly's offense do work. It's the speed and the tempo that they run. I fully expect an offense that is like Washington's last year on steroids....a very uptempo, quick moving, quick hitting, offense that looks like what Washington did this season. And that offense was absolutely brilliant.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    The problem is the belief that Chip Kelly will walk into Philadelphia or Cleveland next season with his 2012-2013 Oregon playbook and install the exact same offense. Of course he wont, he's not an idiot. And he doesn't seem to run in the same Steve Spurier mold of being too much of an ego maniac to realize that his former college players will work in the NFL as long as he's the coach.

    We've seen every aspect of the base Oregon offense in the NFL. Zone blocking scheme? Check - that's worked amazingly well for Shannahan and Kubiak, don't ya think? Running out of the shot gun formation? Shannahan this year in Washington and McCoy last year using Tebow to any sense of effectiveness showed us how that can work. RG3 was used in many read plays this season. Hell, just last night, the only drive the Vikings went read-option resulted in Joe ****ing Webb leading them down the field effectively (although for some reason Frazier scrapped that for the rest of the game). Up tempo offense? Go look at the Patriots (who, by the way, If I remember correctly, actually met with Chip Kelly to add that aspect of their offense) and watch how up-tempo they run.

    You will obviously see a grown up style. You'll see less bubble screen, almost zero of the double-side option play that they run. But the basic principals of Kelly's offense do work. It's the speed and the tempo that they run. I fully expect an offense that is like Washington's last year on steroids....a very uptempo, quick moving, quick hitting, offense that looks like what Washington did this season. And that offense was absolutely brilliant.
    That sounds awesome! All they Eagles need to do is get a QB with the athletism of Vick/RGIII, the accuracy of Brees, the intelligence and leadership of Manning in order to make that offense effective.

    Let's not forget that college coaches rarley have success in the NFL to begin with and the only ones that have recently (Harbaugh and Carroll), ran a pro style offense in college. Steve Spurrier and has up tempo offense was a bust in the NFL and Nick Saban didn't have success either.

    Like another poster said, it will set back the Eagles 3-5 years.
    Last edited by joeyc77; 01-06-2013 at 11:42 AM.

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    That sounds awesome! All they Eagles need to do is get a QB with the athletism of Vick/RGIII, the accuracy of Brees, the intelligence and leadership of Manning in order to make that offense effective.

    Let's not forget that college coaches rarley have success in the NFL to begin with and the only ones that have recently (Harbaugh and Carroll), ran a pro style offense in college. Steve Spurrier and has up tempo offense was a bust in the NFL and Nick Saban didn't have success either.

    Like another poster said, it will set back the Eagles 3-5 years.
    So wait....it's an offense that's not built around the QB, you've said so yourself, yet, to make it effective, they need quite literally the world's greatest QB to ever be born? How does that make any sense?

    And while yes, college coaches don't always have the most success at the NFL level, we've also seen pro-style coaches completely bomb at this level (hey, Nick Saban, lookin' at you) constantly. Coaches fail. You'll find most coaches at the NFL level without experience fail. But again, is it a chicken or an egg situation. Teams usually fire coaches from bad teams. You then ask a coach to take, a bottom 10 team, and make them a top 10 team in the span of three seasons. Of course these coaches will fail more often than not.

    The point with Kelly is that he's got that type of offense and the type of strategy that could absolutely set the NFL on fire. Yeah, you run that bust factor. You run the bust factor with Mike McCoy, Gus Bradley, or, literally, anyone without the NFL experience, and even with it, you run the bust factor. But what you can easily say about the rest out there, none of them have the ceiling potential that Chip Kelly has, either. I'll take the risk that Chip Kelly sets us back three years on the possibility that he makes us a team no one wants to play.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  12. #402
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    Lol 1908 so your argument is Kelly's pass happy style is great for NFL?

    Awesome so all we need now is a Brady / Rodgers / Bree's and were golden!!



    LOL riiiiiight

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  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofphilly View Post
    Lol 1908 so your argument is Kelly's pass happy style is great for NFL?

    Awesome so all we need now is a Brady / Rodgers / Bree's and were golden!!



    LOL riiiiiight
    Kelly doesn't run a "pass happy" style. In fact, he runs a run heavy style. My argument for Kelly was that his offense is not "gimmicky" and that other college style offenses have matured into NFL styles, for example, the pass happy, air-raid styles we're seeing in New Orleans, Green Bay, New England, Detroit, and Atlanta.

    Apparently you didn't read much of my argument.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  14. #404
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    3 reasons why Kelly shouldn't be hired in the NFL as a HC.

    1.Steve Spurrier
    2.Nick Saban
    3.Bobby Petrino

    They couldn't get it done,neither can Kelly.Excellent college coach,but would be a flop in the NFL.

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teehar View Post
    3 reasons why Kelly shouldn't be hired in the NFL as a HC.

    1.Steve Spurrier
    2.Nick Saban
    3.Bobby Petrino

    They couldn't get it done,neither can Kelly.Excellent college coach,but would be a flop in the NFL.
    Petrino coached for like 10 games with Chris redman at qb.

    Not saying Kelly is better but every failed coach has a specific and individual reason they fail

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