Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 76
  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    8,731
    vCash
    34875
    Kobe has a 37.7 FG percentage with shots under 24 seconds with in a one possession game. Get the **** out of here with the clutch factor.

    Yes, every single GM on the ****ing planet would laugh LA out of their office considering the age difference. Excluding the age difference it's pretty obvious at this point in both of their careers Iggy is better. This isn't 09-10 anymore. This is now. GM's like Iggy more even for just one season because he is better in every tangible category worth measuring.

    Iggy rebounds better, he dishes out passes better, and he is a more efficient scorer. There is a reason you use ratios. Kobe has a 33 usage rating. The second most used person has a 30 usage rating. Put that in more perspective, Iggy has a 17 usage rating.

    Stop with the nonsense, dude. Traditional stats also say Monta is as good as Rose. It's simply not true just like it is not true now for this argument.

    Traditional stats say DLee is better than Bogut, and that's also simply not true.
    Last edited by Guppyfighter; 10-18-2012 at 04:20 AM.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    22,131
    vCash
    500
    Monta is as good as Rose. The only reason why we think otherwise is because Rose has had a great defensive and healthy team which can win and because Adidas, NBA and ESPN promote the **** out of him because he is marketable as the next big thing in Chicago.


    Also David Lee is on par with Bogut. Bogut is a rebounding defender. David Lee is a rebounding scorer. Different animals.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    22,131
    vCash
    500
    Also, Rose isn't going to be the same player when he comes back. He better be ready to make changes in his game because he ain't getting his old athleticism back.

    Pre Moped Monta and Post Moped Monta are two different people. Before injury, Monta was flying all over the place. After injury, Monta still flies but he's relatively "grounded" his game. Doesn't some of the insane **** he used to do.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    22,131
    vCash
    500
    I know some of you will get on my *** for "insulting D Rose" but think about it. Do you think Rose would get even half the respect he gets today if he spent most of his career on the injury ridden no defense Warriors and had a shoe contract with And1 which does diddly squat to promote their player?

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    11,860
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Guppyfighter View Post
    Kobe has a 37.7 FG percentage with shots under 24 seconds with in a one possession game. Get the **** out of here with the clutch factor.
    Yes, every single GM on the ****ing planet would laugh LA out of their office considering the age difference. Excluding the age difference it's pretty obvious at this point in both of their careers Iggy is better. This isn't 09-10 anymore. This is now. GM's like Iggy more even for just one season because he is better in every tangible category worth measuring.

    Iggy rebounds better, he dishes out passes better, and he is a more efficient scorer. There is a reason you use ratios. Kobe has a 33 usage rating. The second most used person has a 30 usage rating. Put that in more perspective, Iggy has a 17 usage rating.

    Stop with the nonsense, dude. Traditional stats also say Monta is as good as Rose. It's simply not true just like it is not true now for this argument.

    Traditional stats say DLee is better than Bogut, and that's also simply not true.
    I dont know what most players shooting precentage is in the last 24 seconds of a one possession game... but I would assume it is significantly lower than what would be considered an acceptable season long shooting precentage.

    But- thats an extremely narrow way to evaulate a players value in crunch time. I would look at a guys 4th quarter scoring, a guy who makes good decisions down the stretch (even if it isnt always him scoring). Knowing when to call a time out, knowing when to let a player go and avoid his 5th foul, how the rest of the team performs with you down the stretch. etc.
    A role model if I ever knew one

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    8,731
    vCash
    34875
    Quote Originally Posted by asandhu23 View Post
    Monta is as good as Rose. The only reason why we think otherwise is because Rose has had a great defensive and healthy team which can win and because Adidas, NBA and ESPN promote the **** out of him because he is marketable as the next big thing in Chicago.


    Also David Lee is on par with Bogut. Bogut is a rebounding defender. David Lee is a rebounding scorer. Different animals.
    No, Rose is more efficient. Rose is much better in assist ratios to turnovers and is much more impactful on the game. Saying Monta is as good as Rose is an insult to Rose. I am talking about before the acl tear. We aren't projecting, we are talking about evaluation of a player. Stop with the conspiracy ********. The Bulls were winning because they were good. He made a ninth seeded team a playoff team and the Warriors were never better with Ellis on the floor.

    David Lee is not on par with Bogut. The reason Bogut is better because not when healthy he was leading the league in blocks and charges. When on the floor his team had a defensive efficiency that one of the best in the leagues. David Lee's defense is almost absent.

    It's complete horseshit to say Monta and Lee are as good as Rose and Bogut. Especially given W-L impressions.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,754
    vCash
    1500
    Also, if you are THE MAN down the stretch and nobody else on your team wants the ball and everybody on the planet knows where the ball is going ... scoring 37% of the time is freaking awesome.

    If I had the choice of trading for Iggy or Kobe I'd go with Iggy, but it has little to do with their game and more to do with their ages and their personalities. Kobe is an assassin, and to do that you kind of have to be a prick, but an old prick isn't as easy to use. Iggy is no superstar and the very concept of a "2nd tier" superstar is just silly ... a superstar is by definition at the very top level. Iggy is, however, an exceptional basketball player and by all accounts a great teammate.

    Let's also remember when evaluating Denver that for the first 40 something games last year they had Carmelo Anthony and Billups, and now they have a bunch of good guys who can play, but do they have anybody to be the force of will good teams need? Who is going to be in charge? Philly learned that Iggy is not a take charge, take the team on his back and force them to win guy ... so who is it going to be? Denver is not a bad team, but I don't think it's a lock they are better this year than they were at the start of last year.

    I still don't think the Spurs are a lock either. If they stay healthy then yes, but every year they get older and more likely to lose more games to injury.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,754
    vCash
    1500
    I don't know who is going to will the Warriors to win either ... maybe Bogut, maybe Curry, maybe Jack? I don't know. The Warriors have built a roster of talented but too-nice guys.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    8,731
    vCash
    34875
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Also, if you are THE MAN down the stretch and nobody else on your team wants the ball and everybody on the planet knows where the ball is going ... scoring 37% of the time is freaking awesome.

    If I had the choice of trading for Iggy or Kobe I'd go with Iggy, but it has little to do with their game and more to do with their ages and their personalities. Kobe is an assassin, and to do that you kind of have to be a prick, but an old prick isn't as easy to use. Iggy is no superstar and the very concept of a "2nd tier" superstar is just silly ... a superstar is by definition at the very top level. Iggy is, however, an exceptional basketball player and by all accounts a great teammate.

    Let's also remember when evaluating Denver that for the first 40 something games last year they had Carmelo Anthony and Billups, and now they have a bunch of good guys who can play, but do they have anybody to be the force of will good teams need? Who is going to be in charge? Philly learned that Iggy is not a take charge, take the team on his back and force them to win guy ... so who is it going to be? Denver is not a bad team, but I don't think it's a lock they are better this year than they were at the start of last year.

    I still don't think the Spurs are a lock either. If they stay healthy then yes, but every year they get older and more likely to lose more games to injury.
    There are four levels of players.

    Tier A - Franchise Changers
    Lebron
    Durant
    CP3
    Rose
    Dwight

    Tier B - A Piece
    Type B's can successfully be the biggest piece to a puzzle, but only on a stacked team... And they can easily look like Type C guys in the wrong setting (see DWill in NJ).
    Rudy Gay
    Iggy
    Rondo
    Dwade
    Kobe (Do you guys remember when his team wasn't making the playoffs?)
    D-Will
    Z-Bo
    Kevin Love (Can Move up Defending on if his defense improves)
    Joe Johnson
    Manu Ginobli

    And so on and so forth. Yes, there is a such thing as a second tier superstar. And they have their own salary range. Analysis like John Hollinger use the term second tier superstar in how players should be payed or how they are being payed.

    I don't see how anyone would choose Kobe over Iggy even for one season at this point. Iggy is better in basically everything. Rebounding rate, assist rate, true shooting percentage. Scoring, rebounding, assists, and opponents against him had a lower FG percentage.
    Last edited by Guppyfighter; 10-18-2012 at 11:45 AM.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,754
    vCash
    1500
    Then John Hollinger is an idiot. "Super" means above, so if there is someone above you then they are super, and you are not. It's the f'n definition of the word.

    The press bastardize language all the time, I don't have to accept it, and if you accept it then you are helping the muddle the language and take meaning from useful words.

    A "star" is someone on a team who gets the most attention ... Iggy is a star on the Nuggets.

    Superstars are not just the best players in the game, but they are also the most heavily marketed. Blake Griffin is widely considered a superstar, his game doesn't warrant it, but the fact that he's in LA, is smart and personable, and can jump out of the gym make him a marketing dream ... I don't know if I've EVER seen Iggy used in marketing outside of Philly, and now Denver. To be a superstar you have to be known to casual fans of other teams.

    I think Iggy is a very very good player, but he's no superstar.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    11,860
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Guppyfighter View Post
    No, Rose is more efficient. Rose is much better in assist ratios to turnovers and is much more impactful on the game. Saying Monta is as good as Rose is an insult to Rose. I am talking about before the acl tear. We aren't projecting, we are talking about evaluation of a player. Stop with the conspiracy ********. The Bulls were winning because they were good. He made a ninth seeded team a playoff team and the Warriors were never better with Ellis on the floor.

    David Lee is not on par with Bogut. The reason Bogut is better because not when healthy he was leading the league in blocks and charges. When on the floor his team had a defensive efficiency that one of the best in the leagues. David Lee's defense is almost absent.

    It's complete horseshit to say Monta and Lee are as good as Rose and Bogut. Especially given W-L impressions.
    after monta was traded last yr... the winning precentage took a serious drop
    A role model if I ever knew one

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,754
    vCash
    1500
    BTW Guppy, I like your use of the underused word "horseshit" ... not the same as "********" at all.
    Last edited by Scoots; 10-18-2012 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Darn it, the word was B.S.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    14,707
    vCash
    1500
    Ellis said he's going to average around 15 points per game and around 9 or 10 assist this season.


    Quote Originally Posted by Monta is beast View Post
    If Currys defense is so bad, why do the warriors have the third best defensive team in the league? Why do opposing point guards have a less than average per of 14.9 when Curry is in the game? Why does curry LEAD the nba with a plus minus of +416.
    Quote Originally Posted by alexander_37 View Post
    You can rattle off all of the stats you want with no context whatsoever. You still said Curry is the 4th best player in the league.
    I guess stats aren't factual when rattled off?

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    22,131
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by Monta is beast View Post
    Ellis said he's going to average around 15 points per game and around 9 or 10 assist this season.
    i wouldn't be to shocked if he averages around 8. he doesn't need to be the primary scorer there.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    22,131
    vCash
    500
    too*

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •