Off-Season Thread

[MetsJets0809]

Arencibia is basically a younger version of Barajas offensively, and a mediocre defender. Hundley is a better defender and game caller. And he's solid at the plate. We need more guys that are good 2 way players rather than just at one aspect of the game

[MetsFanatic19]

It's not easy to hit homers at Turner Field, Marlins park or Citi Field(even with the dimension change)

Yes, Arencibia would hit his homers anywhere, but it's concerning to me that they were all pulled. He is a really bad hitter with a lot of pop. He walked less this year and struck out more, not a good sign.

Why is it concerning that all of his homers were to left? I'm not opposed to your opinion, I just want to know what you're thinking.

The way I see that, it's just that his primary focus is to hit homeruns. I would want that from my catcher. His other numbers obviously are bad, but this team hasn't production form the catchers spot in a while.

Also, assuming there's no coaching changes, he'd be getting coached by Hudgins who has made the Mets hitters much more patient. I don't know if he would help at all or not, but it's just something to think about.

[Sick Of It All]

I don't think that his power translates well to Citi Field, and in 2011 Hundley's ISO was .255 at home with 162 WRC+.

His road numbers were also much better than Arencibias.

That's impressive for a park like Petco.

Arencibia also has a career OBP under .300.

It's great he hits for power but he doesn't do much else.

Again there is a problem when you cherry pick what he did one year of his career.

You are right that Arencibia has not shown to be much better or better for that matter, my only reason why I rather have him over Hundley is age, but if he would cost something of value, then pass. I rather got for one of the Milwaukee guys.

[metswon69]

How so? The AL East has team in the same locations as the NL East? Is there different air in Philly than Boston, or a different atmosphere in Miami and Tampa Bay? It's not like Arencibia would be playing in totally different climates, like Hundley would might I add.

Hundley would be facing the same pitching and be playing in the same ballparks as well. Let's not forget about that.

The balls carry better in those ballparks, it's alot like how the dimensions mean very little in Arlington, Cincinnati, or Colorado (it's not nearly as extreme) but the balls do travel better in AL East ballparks.

That's my point though if Hundley can hit in Petco (where he plays a majority of his home games), AT&T, Dodger Stadium which are notoriously bad hitters ballparks (worse than a lot of the NL East parks) then you know he can hit in Citi Field, Turner Field, etc etc.

[MetsFanatic19]

It would be much easier if the Mets just had money to spend so we could get Napoli. But unfortunately, they don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY6fp95uGfM

[MetsJets0809]

Absolutely not. Building around Harvey, Wheeler, Mejia, Familia, Ruben, Ike, and others is what this team needs to do. Dickey could bring in some great young talent that would help this team tremendously in the near future.

Unless the Mets seriously plan on contending in 2013, I would rather them trade Dickey. I want them to lock up Wright, though. If there's one veteran guy that a team needs, it's him.

I agree totally. I love Dickey don't get me wrong, but I feel like the Mets would be best served by simply trading him while his value is at an all time high and getting back solid young pieces that could help now and in the deep future. I think that Harvey and Niese next year could really lead our staff, and Wheeler is in the wings. And like YoungStuna said, that 12-15 million could be used to bring in other players. Imagine we could use that cash to sign Bourn and then maybe sign a solid veteran starter to eat innings? That would be awesome

[MetsJets0809]

And not saying that it would happen or anything, just some wishful thinking

[YoungStuna]

Why is it concerning that all of his homers were to left? I'm not opposed to your opinion, I just want to know what you're thinking.

The way I see that, it's just that his primary focus is to hit homeruns. I would want that from my catcher. His other numbers obviously are bad, but this team hasn't production form the catchers spot in a while.

Also, assuming there's no coaching changes, he'd be getting coached by Hudgins who has made the Mets hitters much more patient. I don't know if he would help at all or not, but it's just something to think about.

Because that means he is looking to pull everything and has no chance to be a good hitter. I think the Barajas comp is a correct one here.

If you believe that Hudgens can make him more patient, then that's another story. He's gonna cost a bit to get though, being an overrated 1st round pick. Hundley would be far cheaper and better than Thole.

[MetsJets0809]

Because that means he is looking to pull everything and has no chance to be a good hitter. I think the Barajas comp is a correct one here.

If you believe that Hudgens can make him more patient, then that's another story. He's gonna cost a bit to get though, being an overrated 1st round pick. Hundley would be far cheaper and better than Thole.

Exactly. We need to be creative and get more value than what we give up. Simply that should make Hundley more attractive

[Sick Of It All]

There is nothing to discuss here since you are being unreasonable. Before this season, there was no way you could tell me that Hundley was the .237/.278/.359 player he showed in 2008. I don't understand how that is a bull **** argument.

and once more you are basing argument after eliminating what he did this year, it's a BS argument to based an argument on such things. He had a nice year in 2011, nobody is saying otherwise, but one good year in 5 years does not a good player make especially when he is about to hit 30.

Sure, it's park-adjusted, but his raw numbers would be better in a more neutral park and his wRC+ would probably increase with it.

They adjusted already hence beign Park Adjusted.

Thole sucked because he sucks period. He was physically OK to do what he wanted and failed to execute. Hundley on the other hand was essentially injured the whole year, don't know how you can discount that.

So once again you take the excuse that suits your argument and ignore what something that clearly hurt a guy's production because you do not want to be wrong.

Age means absolutely nothing here. Thole doesn't have the tools to be a starting catcher in this league. Teams just continue to bust him inside and he can do nothing about it. Maybe that is why the coaches want him to pull the ball?

If you had the younger in your argument, you will bring up age in your first post, so stop ignoring age only when it suits you.

I'm all for going for Arencibia, but he's not really better than Hundley and his plate discipline is terrible. He will be 27 so he's not exactly a spring chicken. Hundley at 25/26 was better than Arencibia at 25/26.

At this point am not saying he is better, am saying he is younger and the only reason why I would rather have him, but if the price is too high for my liking then pass.

[Vintage]

To turn things around we need young pitching and veteran catchers who receive and call great ball games.

We have the young starting pitching with Niese, Harvey, Wheeler, and Gee + Hefner, Mejia, Pelfrey, and Familia

Now we need veteran catchers who can help mentor the staff and have a good - solid reputation/background.

It starts with Kelly Shoppach and ends with one more veteran like him.

[MetsFanatic19]

In the end, Arencibia or Hundley may not make a difference.

I see Hundley not making much of a difference, and you see the same with Arencibia. We could both be right in thinking that these guys may not be productive with the Mets. But then again, we could both be right in thinking that the guy we like more could be helpful to the organization.

Arencibia would definitly cost more only because he has power numbers that make him attractive and he does have some more upside left. On the other hand, HUndley would be cheap because he was never an everyday starter for San Diego and he's coming off a horrible season.

MetJets0809 is definitly correct. Both would be a major upgrade over Thole. I wouldn't be against acquiring Hundley. At all. I would just rather get J.P because the Mets are in need of a power hitting righty, and considering it'd be from the catcher, it'd just be a win-win (somewhat of a win-win lol).

Is there any reason we wouldn't be able to acquire both? I mean, we wouldn't really giving much up for Hundley. Maybe a single pitching prospect with average upside? An Arencibia/Hundley duo would be a huge upgrade over a Shoppach/Thole duo.

[metswon69]

Well there is always David Ross out there too

[Sick Of It All]

The point is guys like Hundley, McLouth are not the answer to this teams offensive struggles, they are not clear improvements over what they have no matter how you want to skew their stats to favor an argument.

The Mets need to stop thinking small by trying to find lighting in a bottle with guys who are 30 years old with not much upside, that is how they land a guy like Torres who they thought could duplicate what he did a couple of years ago.

If they are going to give a shot to somebody I rather be a kid who is still somewhat young with a chance to improve, if you feel Arencibia is not that, then fine am not in love with him either to say he is the answer, but there are plenty of other options out there that could be had.

...but knowning Sandy Alderson I am 99% sure that Hundley will be here next year because of his SD connection and come the end of 2013 everybody will be screaming how much they ****ing hate the guy because he can't for average hit and strikes out a lot.

[YoungStuna]

and once more you are basing argument after eliminating what he did this year, it's a BS argument to based an argument on such things. He had a nice year in 2011, nobody is saying otherwise, but one good year in 5 years does not a good player make especially when he is about to hit 30.

2 above average years and 1 good year with a poor rookie season and one abysmal injury-riddled year. Again, I do not know why keep ignoring this fact, the average catcher has a .312 wOBA and 95 wRC+ while Hundley in 2009 had a .315 wOBA and 97 wRC+ followed by a .317 wOBA and 102 wRC+ in 2010. That is above average, not ****** like you keep saying.

So once again you take the excuse that suits your argument and ignore what something that clearly hurt a guy's production because you do not want to be wrong.

Again, I'm not gonna continue this debate until you tell me this: Maybe the coaches want Thole to pull the baseball because he keeps getting busted inside. How can you go the other way on fastballs on your hands?

If you had the younger in your argument, you will bring up age in your first post, so stop ignoring age only when it suits you.

Why does age matter here? Thole seems to have gotten worse with age, and his tools suggest he's nothing better than what he has been doing. There was no way he was going to keep up the walk rate while being just a ****** hitter with no power.

At this point am not saying he is better, am saying he is younger and the only reason why I would rather have him, but if the price is too high for my liking then pass.

Hundley was better than Arencibia at his the same age, and then Hundley broke out last year.