Off-Season Thread

[Sick Of It All]

He bought a house there and likely did not want to uproot his family.

[yfern328]

He bought a house there and likely did not want to uproot his family.

That and houses on LI actually appraise in value. Considering what Reyes is making, you could buy a mansion in Miami for pennies. Gotta keep the NY property.

[Marty Mcfly]

If the Mets are waiting for a young big time OF in FA, you are talking Heyward and Upton in 2015 (the latter who i know you don't love), and Giancarlo in 2016 (who the Mets should save every dollar to get i ray

They are going to have make some moves before then even if they take the inherent risk of signing a 30+ year old OF.

They'll have to gauge the market, i don't believe any of those guys are going to get 5-6+ years with the exception of maybe Ellsbury (and that's only if he has a huge season next season)

They're not waiting for any big time players, and they've already said this year they're going to do nothing.

[Marty Mcfly]

They had a 140 million dollar payroll as recently as 2011.

They didn't carry themselves as a small market franchise, the biggest accusation you can't make against the Wilpons was they never made that move to put them over the top.

But it wasn't like they were pocketing every dime or giving it to their friend Bernie.

They were spending it on the baseball team but it was spent incorrectly on players that didn't meet their potential like Santana, K-Rod, Bay, etc etc.

Yes they did and they had too, they had $117M invested in 7 players.

Been saying that for years.

Yes. but they also never finished the team or spent on the draft either.

[Marty Mcfly]

Because right now they are able to make excuses with Johan and Bay's contracts, after this season, there will be no excuse for not spending money to improve the team.

Selig won't stand for it because there will be a tremendous amount of criticism and pressure to force ownership to sell, similar with that happened to the Dodgers.

No they not been cutting costs since 2008, where do you come up with these BS allegations? They traded for an expensive closer to use as their set up man, signed K-Rod to a big deal with Wagner's contract still on the books, how is that cost cutting? Then they signed Bay to a big deal. The cost cutting happened as soon as the Madoff story came up, so logically the payroll has decreased since then.

Now however, it is settled but they will be using this off season to get themselves back on their feet hopefully.

You are being way too extreme and illogical with your blind hate for ownership. I don't like them either, but you are just flat-out wrong.

If they want to find new excuses they will invent new excuses, you think the Coupons will care if the Bay/Johan excuse has run out? - That's naive.

Selig is in on the con, he helped set it up, he has enabled Fredo for years.

They sold Wager for $3M - remember? Instead of trading him.

Bay's deal was 'covered' by the departure of CD.

I'm not flat out wrong about the Coupons for years i've been telling people like you what they'll do and what will happen and for years everyone said I was too extreme, turns out I was right.

I don't blindly hate the Coupons I have man many years watching how they operate, it's not blind hatred. it's hatred formed by WATCHING them destroy and ruin this team at every turn.


I'm telling you now, don't expect a lot of FA signings next Winter because Bay and Johan have come off...

[YoungStuna]

How is that naive? They will lose the fanbase if they do nothing next off-season.

Selig hasn't helped set anything up, he's just giving the Wilpons time to get back on their feet and provide for the team financially again. And if they don't, I'm sure he will urge them to sell. If Selig doesn't, then the new commissioner surely will.

The Wagner thing was a salary dump, so I agree there.

I don't understand how Bay was "covered" when they had to spend real money to get him.

[Marty Mcfly]

How is that naive? They will lose the fanbase if they do nothing next off-season.

Selig hasn't helped set anything up, he's just giving the Wilpons time to get back on their feet and provide for the team financially again. And if they don't, I'm sure he will urge them to sell. If Selig doesn't, then the new commissioner surely will.

The Wagner thing was a salary dump, so I agree there.

I don't understand how Bay was "covered" when they had to spend real money to get him.

They've lost the fan base already. Selig absolutely helped set everything up, he gave them time and money to ruin the team even further, and he sent them Spindy Alderson to BS for them. He's doing everything he can to help the Coupons keep the team, and the fan base can go f themselves. This is country club baseball, wealthy old men scratching each others backs, Fredo was always a good soldier in terms of not over-slotting too much and staying under the lux tax. This is his pay-back.

CD's contract came off, therefore it was 'covered' in terms of headline payroll number, it was in effect a sideways move.

[YoungStuna]

Not really, many people still believe in the team, but a no owner or GM can sell a $70MM payroll in NY. It's never going to happen, and in one year we're gonna be looking back laughing at the idea.

They had Ike Davis to play at 1B, so they used Delgado's money on Bay, how is that lateral move?

We'll see what happens because neither one of us really knows what will happen as much as we think we do.

[Marty Mcfly]

Not really, many people still believe in the team, but a no owner or GM can sell a $70MM payroll in NY. It's never going to happen, and in one year we're gonna be looking back laughing at the idea.

They had Ike Davis to play at 1B, so they used Delgado's money on Bay, how is that lateral move?

We'll see what happens because neither one of us really knows what will happen as much as we think we do.

Who believes in the team? all those people now NOT buying tickets?

If the Coupons want a $70M payroll, they will have a $70M payroll. End of story.

How is that a lateral move? they replaced one big bat with a big bat. That's not an upgrade. Ike was just a kid then and even now he's far from proven.

Yes, neither of us knows as much as we think, but I'm going on 20 odd years experience of watching how these creeps operate. How successful have we been since they took over?

You think that's a coincidence?

We'll see what happens, but this golden 2014 you're planning on probably won't materialise.

I admire your optimism but it is misplaced in this team. If we got new owners tomorrow, my outlook would completely change, just tell me you're gonna spend $120-130M on a NY baseball team is that too much to ask? invest in the draft, and stop making up BS about players to justify not signing/resigning them.

More than money, we need owners who don't think of the Mets as the red-headed step child of the Dodgers, owners with real ambition for the Mets, not an owners trying to recreate his boyhood on our time.

[MetsJets0809]

Not really, many people still believe in the team, but a no owner or GM can sell a $70MM payroll in NY. It's never going to happen, and in one year we're gonna be looking back laughing at the idea.

They had Ike Davis to play at 1B, so they used Delgado's money on Bay, how is that lateral move?

We'll see what happens because neither one of us really knows what will happen as much as we think we do.

Exactly. We all need to calm down a bit and just wait to see what happens. I'm a little more confident than some of few, but I just have a feeling from looking at the situation that we're gonna have a different team come April 1. Good or bad, Idk but different I am sure

[MetsJets0809]

Would you guys be opposed to trading Murphy to Oakland for Colin Cowgill and Michael Taylor and giving them a shot to play everyday?

[metswon69]

They're not waiting for any big time players, and they've already said this year they're going to do nothing.

I wasn't talking about this year, i was talking about 2014.

Considering the FA market is weak of superstar OFs till 2015 and 2016, they can't expect Met fans to wait around that long to sign someone of significance.

We've been waiting since 2009, this is getting tiring knowing every season will end with a 70 win ball club while those *******s in the Bronx keep retooling and winning 95+ games.

So if signing a couple of 30+ year old OF to 3 year deals makes the team better do it.

We can't be gun shy going forward just because Jason Bay ****ed us.

Neither can we wait around for a guy like Carlos Beltran to fall on the open market because it's not happening anytime soon.

If we can't improve via our farm system for 3-4 years and don't have the pieces to trade for all star players, that really only leaves one other option and that means opening up Fred's dusty wallet to acquire players to make this team better at some point.

Saying that, although it's way too far into the future to think about i am stating it on the open record now that i want Giancarlo Stanton in 2016

[metswon69]

Would you guys be opposed to trading Murphy to Oakland for Colin Cowgill and Michael Taylor and giving them a shot to play everyday?

Cowgill to me is another 4th OF, doesn't provide much at the plate, lacks size at 5'9 and at 26 doesn't have a lot more room for development.

Michael Taylor was always interesting to me because at 6'5 255, you would think he would rip the ball but as we've seen in guys like Lucas Duda, size doesn't always translate to power.

He's clearly regressed quite a bit from his bigger time prospect days in Philadelphia.

Not to mention he couldn't break the 12 home run mark in the PCL last year, i honestly would rather keep Murphy.

[YoungStuna]

Who believes in the team? all those people now NOT buying tickets?

If the Coupons want a $70M payroll, they will have a $70M payroll. End of story.

How is that a lateral move? they replaced one big bat with a big bat. That's not an upgrade. Ike was just a kid then and even now he's far from proven.

Yes, neither of us knows as much as we think, but I'm going on 20 odd years experience of watching how these creeps operate. How successful have we been since they took over?

You think that's a coincidence?

We'll see what happens, but this golden 2014 you're planning on probably won't materialise.

I admire your optimism but it is misplaced in this team. If we got new owners tomorrow, my outlook would completely change, just tell me you're gonna spend $120-130M on a NY baseball team is that too much to ask? invest in the draft, and stop making up BS about players to justify not signing/resigning them.

More than money, we need owners who don't think of the Mets as the red-headed step child of the Dodgers, owners with real ambition for the Mets, not an owners trying to recreate his boyhood on our time.

The Wilpons can have a $70MM payroll, but they'll receive so much criticism and the Mets will likely be terrible so that will likely draw the line with Bud. If they weren't friends, he probably would have forced to sell already imo. You are free to believe what you want.

It wasn't a lateral move because Delgado wasn't healthy enough to return so they replaced his big bat with Bay and gave 1B to their best positional prospect. Spending for the sake of spending is not a good strategy.

The Mets have never been in this circumstance of the owners struggling with debt from the Madoff situation so I think that your prior experiences as a fan watching them operate is irrelevant in this scenario. They aren't good owners, but there is no debating that they invested a lot of money in the team year after year.

We won't have a $120MM payroll until our young guys develop and we start winning. I believe that most of the debts are paid off now so we will see more spending moving forward. If I'm wrong, then I'll give you your credit for being right.

[metswon69]

Double post.