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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Santa Monica

    31 72.09%
  • Winterfell

    8 18.60%
  • GMs of these teams vote here

    4 9.30%
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  1. #1
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    NBA ReDraft Playoffs 2nd Round: 1) Santa Monica vs. 5) Winterfell

    Welcome to the 2012 NBA ReDraft voting process. The redraft is exactly how it sounds. The rosters of every NBA team are cleared and then drafted again from scratch. Posters from the site draft full rosters under a salary cap and then there is a voting process to make the playoffs. We are now in the playoffs and the head to head matchups have begun. Please remember to vote for the roster and write-up you believe would win a 7 game series. Also remember that every player is considered as healthy for these playoffs. Thank you and enjoy the playoffs!

    Santa Monica:
    C: Joakim Noah (36) | Aaron Gray (12)
    PF: Dirk Nowitzki (38) | Jared Jeffries (10)
    SF: Tayshaun Prince (28) | Luc Richard Mbah a Moute (20)
    SG: Eric Gordon (36) | Jerryd Bayless ( 12)
    PG: Isaiah Thomas (34) | Jerryd Bayless (14)

    Winterfell:
    PG – Jameer Nelson / Norris Cole
    SG – James Harden / Raja Bell
    SF – Ronnie Brewer / Stephen Jackson
    PF – Kris Humphries / Tyler Hansbrough
    C – Chris Bosh / Brendan Haywood / Kwame Brown / Hasheem Thabeet


    Santa Monica Writeup
    First off, we’d like to congratulate Marbury3orBust and Ebbs for making it this far. Both GM’s did an excellent job. First:

    Three facts we want you to know:
    1. Isaiah Thomas’s numbers as a starter-
    14.2 points, 5.2 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 steal on 47% FG, 40% 3pt, 83% FT.
    2. Tayshaun Prince is an above average defender:
    He held opponents to a .81 PPP overall (ranked 128) on 35% FG. Also, his opponent PER was 11.4 last season which is well above average with his sample size of defensive opportunities.
    3. Santa Monica’s superior balance-
    We feel we’ve developed a starting 5 that’s perfectly suited to play off each individual’s strength. Eric Gordon thrives in the PnR and being a primary ball-handler as shown by his 1.21 PPP in PnR situations. With this in mind, we wanted a PG who could still create for others, but also thrive in off-the-ball situations to let Gordon maximize his talents. Isaiah Thomas’s ability to stretch the floor allows us for Gordon and Dirk to really thrive together in PnR situations. Not only that, but IT’s ability to create for himself as well as thrive in the PnR was absolutely fantastic. He ranked 24th, in ISO situations and 5th in PnR situations last season which gives us a very unique ability to turn to an IT-Dirk PnR game or an Eric Gordon-Dirk PnR game. It’s another facet that the Winterfell defense will have to account for.

    The real strength of Santa Monica is our bigs duo, Dirk Nowitzki, and Joakim Noah. We confidently feel this is the strongest bigs duo in the redraft and their talents complement each other absolutely perfectly. Dirk will have the freedom of totally being focused on the offensive end with Noah’s ability to rebound at a high rate (18 TRB %) and be a quality defensive anchor.

    Head-Head Match-ups:

    PG Matchup: Isaiah Thomas / Jerryd Bayless vs Jameer Nelson / Norris Cole
    It’s no secret that Jameer Nelson has fallen off a notch. He’s no longer an efficient 14+ PPG scorer and he’s just not a good defender. According to synergy, he was 404th in the league last year in overall defense. He gave up 1.09 PPP on spot ups (329th in the NBA), 0.91 PPP on pick and rolls (185th in the league). Even on offense, Nelson averaged only 12 PPG on mediocre efficiency. Isaiah Thomas on the other hand was incredibly efficient for the entire year posting a .57 TS%, and a 52% eFG%. Thomas was ranked as the 5th best pick and roll ball handler according to synergy, averaging 1.03 PPP (49% score rate) on such plays. Keep in mind that he did this all with the likes of Cousins, Thompson, Hickson, etc. in Sacrament. Now, he has Dirk Nowitzki and Joakim Noah to run the pick and roll with. Thomas should be able to exploit Nelson on pick and roll plays, as well as iso plays (0.92 PPP and 24th in the league), and spot ups (123rd in the league, 0.99 PPP and 38% 3P %). On defense, Thomas’s size advantage will not be an issue. He was a great defender last year, limiting the opposition to 0.83 Points per Possession. He is a very good defender of the isolation and pick and roll, meaning he should be able to limit Nelson. In addition, Isaiah’s team was a whopping 7.3 points better when he was on the field than when he was off the field. Off the bench, we can bring in Jerryd Bayless who had a great year. He can shoot from deep and run the offense for 15-20 minutes to give Isaiah a rest. He sported a 56% TS%, while shooting 42% from deep and scoring 11.4 PPG. Cole is an energetic young player, but he proved to be very inconsistent throughout the year.
    Advantage: Santa Monica

    SG Matchup: Eric Gordon / Jordan Hamilton vs. James Harden / Raja Bell
    On the surface, this seems like an advantage for Winterfell, but it is closer than it seems. Gordon has shown to have the ability to score 19+ PPG consistently, which explains him being rewarded with a maximum contract this past offseason. He is a good outside shooter (career 37% 3P %), an improved distributer (4.2 APG in 2010-2011), and an all-around versatile scorer. Harden is as inefficient as they come on offense, but he doesn’t have great defensive prowess. Harden struggles mightily on isolation plays and spot up plays, allowing 0.97 PPP (291st in the league) and 0.95 PPP (206th in the league, 37.5% from 3) respectively. Gordon is a great isolation player and will also be getting open spot up looks, sharing the ball-handling duties with the versatile Isaiah Thomas. On defense, we will be putting Tayshaun Prince on James Harden. Prince is very lengthy and has the ability to bother Harden. One of the things that makes Harden such a tough player to guard is his ability to run the pick and roll. To counter that, Prince is among the best in guarding the pick and roll, allowing only 0.6 PPP, good for 14th in the league. Prince also allows only 0.9 PPP on spot ups, another important facet of Harden’s game. Harden won’t be shut down, but he will definitely be bothered by Prince.
    Advantage: Winterfell

    SF Matchup: Tayshaun Prince / Luc Richard Mbah a Moute vs. Stephen Jackson / Ronnie Brewer
    To be frank, Stephen Jackson isn’t a starting caliber player anymore. He was flat out horrendous all year. Don’t let one good series versus the Thunder fool you. He sported an atrocious 48.5% TS% this year and had negative offensive win shares this year. His numbers in the postseason are also misleading. Jackson only played 14.5 MPG vs the Clippers, shooting 33% from deep and from the field. We believe in Gordon to stick with Jackson who is primarily a spot up shooter at this point in his career. Tayshaun can still add 10-14 PPG, as a spot up shooter and slasher. Off the bench, we have the option to put Mbah a Moute in, who is known for his superb defense and hustle play. He is a great rebounder for his position and can guard Harden or Jackson shall any of the two have big games.
    Advantage: Santa Monica

    PF Matchup: Dirk Nowitzki / Jared Jeffries vs. Kris Humphries / Tyler Hansbrough
    This is just a clear, humungous advantage for Santa Monica and it is a series changer. Kris Humphries is not a very good defender, and Dirk is simply one of the best offensive players in the game. Dirk is still only one year removed from an epic finals run, leading his team pas the Miami Heat. The one huge difference between this season and last season for the Mavericks was having a defensive anchor down low to play next to Dirk, and we have given him a top center who can basically do it all. Dirk will have little to worry about on defense, as Humphries is not a very talented player downlow and Dirk is an average to above average defender, as ebbs can attest to . If Winterfell tries to put Bosh on Dirk, don’t expect Dirk to be slowed down. Dirk had his dominating performance in the finals against Chris Bosh and I see no reason why it would be any different this time. Dirk is still a very efficient and versatile scorer, although he got off to a rough start with the shortened season and playing overseas. He sported a 56% TS% and had a superb first round, scoring 27 PPG while getting to the line 10.5 times with a 56% TS%. He did this versus a great defender in Serge Ibaka, so I highly doubt that Humphries or Bosh will be able to limit Dirk here. Off the bench, Jeffries and Psycho T bring similar things off the bench. Jeffries is a veteran who does the little things to help teams win, like take charges (amongst the best) and fight for loose balls.
    Huge Advantage: Santa Monica

    C Matchup: Joakim Noah / Aaron Gray vs. Chris Bosh / Brendan Haywood
    Joakim is a jack of all trades guy. He can set great picks, handle the ball at the free throw line and make good passes (2.5 APG), rebound with the best of them (18.0 TRB%), and be a great anchor down low on defense (1.4 BPG). We love his matchup versus Bosh, because Bosh’s advantage playing at center is neutralized. Bosh doesn’t have a huge advantage being the more mobile player and we can bank on Noah giving Bosh a hard time on offense. In addition, Noah can hit the mid-range shot and is a threat to score on offense (56.1 TS%, ranked 80th in the Pick and Roll, 84th in the post up, 68th cutting, and 33rd in transition). Bosh is an improved defender, but he will have his hands full with Noah and may even get himself in foul trouble. Shall Winterfell put Humphries on Noah; Noah has a clear advantage on offense, being that Humphries is a mediocre defender. Rebounding wise, Noah can keep up with Humphries and is a better rebounder than Bosh. Dirk is also a solid defender at PF and Prince and Thomas are good rebounders at their positions. Because we sport such a quick and mobile set of bigs, Haywood would be useless in this matchup, as his big body is best utilized for guys like Bynum and Dwight. We like Gray backing up the center spot for us as he provides good rebounding and defense for 13-18 minutes.
    Advantage: Winterfell

    In a close matchup like this, you have to look at who has the better closer, balance, and team defense. Winterfell has okay defenders at their individual positions but no defensive anchor. Bosh at center works for the Heat because they have great defenders at SF, PG, and SG in James, Chalmers, and Wade. Humphries, Harden, Jackson, and Nelson are hardly the defenders that Bosh has in Miami. We will have Dirk, Thomas, and Gordon driving down the lane unimpeded with Dirk on the perimeter. Either Humphries is their anchor or they have Humphries guard Dirk. It’s pick your poison. Our ability to score efficiently and at a high rate along with our above average team defense AND Home court advantage gives us the edge. Santa Monica wins this series in 6 games.
    Winterfell Writeup
    Congratulations to Santa Monica for making the 2nd round. It’s always fun to debate with two active GMs like Rosh and Jamal. Let’s begin!

    C – Bosh vs. Noah (guarded by Kris Humphries)
    Bosh is the #1 option for Winterfell. In his last season with the Raptors he averaged 24ppg on 59% TS%. He’s a talented scorer in his prime who can score from anywhere on the floor. He’ll be starting at center against Joakim Noah. Noah is an intelligent but limited player. He’s not a post-up player (only made 20 out of 51 shots in post-ups) or an iso player (only made 11 shots out of 29 all season). In his favor, he plays within his own game and averages a respectable 10-10 on good efficiency with cuts and transition hoops but this allows me to slide Humphries over to guard Noah to keep him off the glass without worrying about giving up anything defensively. The aspect of Noah’s game which is critical in this series is his defense on Chris Bosh. Noah’s bball IQ helps makes him a tremendous help defender but he is greatly overrated as a man to man defender. He was ranked 170th in isolation defense, 204th in post-up defense, and 240th in overall defense. Meanwhile, Bosh was highly effective ranked #22 in the NBA last season in isolation offense and would be able to take Noah off the dribble and in the post all series long. Every relevant statistic plays in Winterfell's favor here.

    PF – Kris Humphries vs. Dirk Nowitzki (guarded by Chris Bosh)
    Dirk is the best player in this series. The only question I ask is for how much longer? Dirk is 33 years old and hasn’t had a TS% lower than this past season since 2003-2004 when he was 25. His scoring average was its lowest since 1999-2000 when he was 21! These are some alarming declines. A lot of it stemmed from him coming into camp out of shape and starting off slow. Unfortunately the overall result was a Mavs team that got swept in the first round while Dirk shot a TS% lower than the regular season. His efficiency numbers are still solid but not on the Dirk level that we’ve known. In addition, Bosh will be guarding Dirk. Bosh took his defense to another level this season holding opponents to a mere 37% from the field (only 30% in iso!). He was also 9th best overall in defending the PnR. In addition, Winterfell has the former Dirk stopper Stephen Jackson for spot minutes. We don’t plan on relying on Captain Jack but he was the key defender in Dirk’s most embarrassing failure in the league so we believe he can be effective in small doses here. He’s always been a hard-nosed defender. With Bosh as the primary defender against Dirk it was important to me to get a top rebounder and Humphries was top 5 in the NBA in overall rebounding. He broke out last season as a 14-11 player and can keep Noah off the boards and help push the tempo with outlet passes. That being said Dirk is still extremely talented and has a clear advantage here but how will Dirk help protect the paint? We’ll discuss this further in the overall section.

    SF – Ronnie Brewer vs. Tayshaun Prince (guarded by James Harden)
    I’ll keep this short and sweet. Prince is the better overall player but Brewer is the superior defender. Brewer is starting to matchup against his SG. I’m not worried about Prince being guarded by Harden because Prince has no post-game. He shot a meager 35 for 115 (31.3%) in post-ups last season. In fact, his overall TS% was an abysmal 47%, one of the worst for any starter in the NBA. If Santa Monica's game plan to beat us is to use Prince as more of a scorer, then we welcome that change. In addition, Stephen Jackson will also spend a lot of time at the SF and brings a more similar type of production to Tayshaun Prince.

    SG – James Harden vs. Eric Gordon (guarded by Ronnie Brewer)
    James Harden – 17ppg / 4rpg / 4apg / 1spg on 49/39/84 for a TS% of 66% (one of the most efficient seasons for a guard in NBA History) – PER 21.1
    Eric Gordon – 20ppg / 3rpg / 3apg / 1spg on 45/25/75 for TS% of 55% - PER 19.2

    Brief note: Even with his sub-par Finals, Harden still averaged 17ppg on 61%TS% for the playoffs. If you like experience, then in this matchup Harden should have a clear edge over Gordon who has never yet made it to the playoffs. Another advantage we have is the fact that Ronnie Brewer is the ideal wing to defender to matchup against Gordon. Winterfell loves that we took the risk of trading for a wing like Brewer and we believe this is the matchup where having Brewer really pays off. We even have notoriously pesky defender Raja Bell off the bench to get in Gordon’s face. The third important point here is Harden flat-out produced Gordon last year. The stats show it across the board. Finally, Eric Gordon is an injury-risk. This article is from October 10th: http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ss...d_eric_29.html He’s STILL missing time because of his knee. He had loose cartilage particles removed and missed all but 9 games last season. How much can we really count on him at this point?

    PG – Jameer Nelson vs. Isaiah Thomas
    Jameer Nelson – 12ppg / 6apg / 3rpg on 38% from 3pt
    Isaiah Thomas – 12ppg / 4apg / 3rpg on 38% from 3pt
    Personally I like Jameer’s experience. He’s a former all-star. He’s a facilitator who spaces the floor. Thomas had an inconsistent but very solid rookie campaign. I see a push in this matchup.

    Bench – Cole/Raja/Sjax/Psycho T/Haywood/Kwame vs. Bayless/Hamilton/Mbah a Moute/Jeffries/Gray
    Normally I don’t place much emphasis on bench writeup but in this particular matchup I see huge advantages here. Haywood and Hansborough provide me with superior play at both frontcourt positions and a huge boost in the rebounding and post defense battles. Sjax is the best bench wing in this series and can provide a scoring spark like he did for the Spurs in the playoffs. Additionally Raja Bell still scored 6.4ppg on 39% from 3pt and 58% TS% starting for the Jazz. He’s still a great perimeter threat. Bayless is better than Cole but Harden would take most of the bench PG minutes which means my advantage would remain.

    Overall:
    At the end of the day there are 3 simple reasons that Winterfell would win this matchup:
    1. Bosh is in the prime of his career and has transformed into one of the best 2-way players in the game. His offensive skillset creates problems for Noah’s overrated man to man defense. Meanwhile, they have no one to guard Harden or to protect the paint. Between Noah-Dirk-Gray they have no one in the top 200 in overall defense last season! These players are their last line of defense. Noah will be forced to spend all his energy on Bosh, leaving him unable to help in the paint (his true strength). Plus with Harden’s adept ability to get to the foul line. We believe this could get Gordon in foul trouble or possibly even Dirk trying to help out. If either one of them gets into foul trouble, that completely swings the series in Winterfell’s favor.
    2. We have two defenders in Brewer and Bosh who matchup perfectly to guard his top two options.
    3. We have more depth than Santa Monica.

    Overall we believe Santa Monica has a talented team but that Winterfell is a bad matchup for them and deserves to advance. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

  2. #2
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    I'm just curious how Santa Monica plans on protecting the paint and why they left the benches out of the writeup entirely?

    Those are two huge disadvantages for them that their team neglected to address. It's clear this team is comfortable using synergy's numbers and yet ironically we saw a bunch of Noah's offensive numbers yet none of his defense numbers? You can't pick which stats are relevant. If they want to act like Noah is a talented offensive player (a stretch) then they are conceding his liabilities as a man to man defender against my number 1 option. Additionally, does anybody really like Tayshaun Prince on Harden? To be honest, I would have been more impressed if they stuck Gordon on him. If Prince plays off then Harden can burn him with his perimeter shooting and if he plays up on him, the quicker Harden can just blow right by him and get to the rim at will. Something he proved over and over last season.

    These are my top two options and they have yet to convince me either will be slowed down. Meanwhile Brewer is a natural pick to guard Gordon and was arguably one of the best man to man wing defenders in the league last season and Bosh took his defense to another level last season.
    Last edited by KnicksorBust; 10-12-2012 at 12:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I'm just curious how Santa Monica plans on protecting the paint and why they left the benches out of the writeup entirely? Those are two huge disadvantages for them that their team neglected to address. It's clear this team is comfortable using synergy's numbers and yet ironically we saw a bunch of Noah's offensive numbers yet none of his defense numbers? You can't pick which stats are relevant.
    Did you read it? Benches were added to the positional matchups.

    And my defensive anchor is Noah. Funny that you bring that up. How's Kris Humphries anchoring the paint gonna fly?

    If they want to act like Noah is a talented offensive player (a stretch) then they are conceding his liabilities as a man to man defender against my number 1 option.
    Noah's trouble come with players who are physically dominating like Howard, Gasol, Bynum, etc. Bosh is an undersized, smaller player that Noah matches up well against. His synergy numbers are going to be hurt playing versus the bigger centers obviously, which isn't the case here.

    Additionally, does anybody really like Tayshaun Prince on Harden? To be honest, I would have been more impressed if they stuck Gordon on him. If Prince plays off then Harden can burn him with his perimeter shooting and if he plays up on him, the quicker Harden can just blow right by him and get to the rim at will. Something he proved over and over last season.
    Prince has guarded a variety of players. Harden isn't an overly quick player that is going to "burn" Prince. Harden uses his body very well to gain favorable angles. I like Prince's ability to use his body to try to limit those opportunities. I mean obviously if it doesn't work, it's available for change. It's a 7 game series.

    These are my top two options and they have yet to convince me either will be slowed down. Meanwhile Brewer is a natural pick to guard Gordon and was arguably one of the best man to man wing defenders in the league last season and Bosh took his defense to another level last season.
    Brewer? The same guy who had to sign for the vet min to a team that already has 4 guards? That guy is now one of the best man to man wing defenders in the game? If he was then I think teams would actually have wanted him this offseason. He's a good wing player, but is he starting? The Bulls were 5 points worse with him on the field than off the field. But that's great, then Gordon will have all his energy left on the offensive end and won't get into any foul trouble. You also mentioned Gordon's injury, but Brewer is perfectly healthy now?

    As for Gordon being guarded by Brewer, Brewer isn't a great iso or spot up defender, which is where a lot of Gordon's offense comes from. Granted, Brewer will be successful in limiting the Pick and Roll, but his big in Humphries won't be. Brewer's just a liability on offense though and his +/- numbers, synergy numbers and efficiency numbers all suggest that he hurts the team on offense way too much. You can say that you have enough offense, but so do the Bulls. Yet, he brought down their offensive production when he was on the floor.

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    As for Bosh being an answer to Nowitzki, judge for yourself. Bosh vs. Nowitzki in their two matchups this year with Bosh's next level D:

    1st Meeting Dirk: 21 Points, 6-15 shooting, BUT 9-10 from the line (Bosh in foul trouble with 5 fouls), 5 boards, 3 Assists
    2nd Meeting Dirk: 25 Points, 6 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 9-19 shooting, 7-7 FTM-FTA.

    Not to mention the 2010-2011 Finals...

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    I don't see how anyone can question Noah's defensive ability while anchoring a top 3 defense the last few seasons. As Rosh said, he struggles in ISO/post up defense against the bigger, dominating Centers, but Bosh is right in his wheel house of bigs he can hastle the entire series.

    Also, Toronto Bosh made the playoffs twice and never won a playoff series. Even if you wanted Toronto Bosh back, it's not likely he can just return to that offensive form at the click of a button. Harden suffers from similar issues of not yet having the opportunity to show he can carry a team offensively. Your duo is built around talent that has only had success as 3rd wheel players on title teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish1314 View Post
    If they sold you with adultery between Delonte and Mrs. James, then here:

    Kenyon #Gangstarep Martin reppin that kiss on his neck. He almost ate Mark Cuban. #Steamysteams blockin those shots, your balls are in a no fly zone. Michael Redd my knees are back! Jannero...Jesus I can't do this.


    The PSD NBA Redraft GOAT speaking the truth

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    Santa Monica in 7


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    Santa Monica is nice, they have a chance to win it all. Only thing I would do is swap Tayshaun Princes minutes with Luc Richard Mbah a Moutes minutes though.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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    Santa Monica wins in 6 for me. I like Noah as their defensive anchor protecting the rim and like their scorers

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    Take that bondi!

    Born a Knick Live a Knick Die a Knick
    Knicks-Jets-Yanks-Chris Paul-St.Johns-Duke Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by StarvingKnick22 View Post
    Take that bondi!
    What?

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    Me to my wife on Wednesday night "I need time on the computer tonight to do work." (aka... spending over an hour working on an NBA Redraft writeup). After seeing this vote, I realized I make some terrible life decisions thanks to PSD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Me to my wife on Wednesday night "I need time on the computer tonight to do work." (aka... spending over an hour working on an NBA Redraft writeup). After seeing this vote, I realized I make some terrible life decisions thanks to PSD.
    Your team is sex though.

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    Congrats rosh, and jamal. One of the better teams in this though I think Noah is trash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Me to my wife on Wednesday night "I need time on the computer tonight to do work." (aka... spending over an hour working on an NBA Redraft writeup). After seeing this vote, I realized I make some terrible life decisions thanks to PSD.
    awesome.

    On a much sadder note though, it's incredible to me the Kobe team was a closer match-up than this one
    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish1314 View Post
    If they sold you with adultery between Delonte and Mrs. James, then here:

    Kenyon #Gangstarep Martin reppin that kiss on his neck. He almost ate Mark Cuban. #Steamysteams blockin those shots, your balls are in a no fly zone. Michael Redd my knees are back! Jannero...Jesus I can't do this.


    The PSD NBA Redraft GOAT speaking the truth

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Me to my wife on Wednesday night "I need time on the computer tonight to do work." (aka... spending over an hour working on an NBA Redraft writeup). After seeing this vote, I realized I make some terrible life decisions thanks to PSD.
    Quote Originally Posted by chacarronsau View Post
    Your team is sex though.
    Yeah, but he probably missed out on sex
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