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  1. #106
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    Most of the talk around the Indians this offseason revolves around which players they will trade, from right fielder Shin-Soo Choo to shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera, right-hander Justin Masterson to closer Chris Perez.



    Yet, according to major-league sources, the Indians aren’t limiting their search to improve, even while considering moves that seemingly will result in a step backward.



    In fact, club officials are checking in on most of the available players in trades and free agency, even ones who seemingly will be out of their financial reach.



    Case in point: Free-agent outfielder/first baseman Nick Swisher.



    The Indians likely stand no chance of signing Swisher, who is drawing interest from a number of clubs and could emerge as a viable alternative for teams that fail to land the market’s biggest prize, Josh Hamilton.



    Swisher, though, is from Parkersburg, WV, a city not far from the Ohio border. He attended Ohio State University. And, like most players, he holds new Indians manager Terry Francona in high regard.



    Does any of that mean that the Indians will sign Swisher? Of course not. But just as teams act as buyers and sellers at the trade deadline, the Indians could function as both this off-season — and maybe even pull off a surprise.



    — Ken Rosenthal
    http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/m...?new_post=true

  2. #107
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    “@TJZuppe: Ken Rosenthal points out #Indians checking in on just about any and every FA. I'll point out that won't register w/ fans until they land 1.”

    “@TJZuppe: One of the players Rosenthal points to is Nick Swisher, who holds Terry Francona in high regard. Swisher likely to get over-paid by someone.”


    Smoke 'em if you've got 'em

  3. #108
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    @TJZuppe: Ken Rosenthal points out #Indians checking in on just about any and every FA. I'll point out that won't register w/ fans until they land 1.

    @TJZuppe: One of the players Rosenthal points to is Nick Swisher, who holds Terry Francona in high regard. Swisher likely to get over-paid by someone.


    Smoke 'em if you've got 'em

  4. #109
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    Who cares who the Indians are looking at? They can look all the want, signing is what actually gets results.

  5. #110
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    Mark Shapiro recently told a fan on the Les Levine show that "if the only reason you are coming to watch the Tribe is to see them to win, then don't come to the games." Comments like that will fill up the ballpark.


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  6. #111
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    “@SirFranksnBacon: Shapiro's comment...are you offended...if you come just to see a winning team..then dont”


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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    “@SirFranksnBacon: Shapiro's comment...are you offended...if you come just to see a winning team..then dont”
    I could really care less. I feel that its kind of the same as Holmgren saying don't come to me for playoff tickets a couple years back. I'll still root for the team because its engraved in my body but I have giving up on the Tribes management a long time ago. Shapiro knows he has job security because of the idiot Dolans and knows that his job is just to do enough to keep the team afloat no matter fan appreciation or not. He knows he will never get the money to build a contender and that they don't know really how to evaluate and develop young talent where it is basically lets stay out of the red even if it is only a couple million the Dolans get a year.

    Maybe the comment will finally wake the Dolans up about what has been going on for the past 11 years but probably not as they are bigger idiots than Shap and Ants.

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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    I could really care less. I feel that its kind of the same as Holmgren saying don't come to me for playoff tickets a couple years back. I'll still root for the team because its engraved in my body but I have giving up on the Tribes management a long time ago. Shapiro knows he has job security because of the idiot Dolans and knows that his job is just to do enough to keep the team afloat no matter fan appreciation or not. He knows he will never get the money to build a contender and that they don't know really how to evaluate and develop young talent where it is basically lets stay out of the red even if it is only a couple million the Dolans get a year.

    Maybe the comment will finally wake the Dolans up about what has been going on for the past 11 years but probably not as they are bigger idiots than Shap and Ants.
    Come on it's fun to take shots at Shaponetti! It sounds like it was taken out of context but it means what it means. No surprise. I see the season ticket holders continue to shrink in size. I know my parents stopped purchasing them in 2006 after having seats for 12 years. It sounds like Shaponetti wants casual fans to attend games. Meaning people will only go to a couple games a year for the experience of a ballgame. Not to watch the Indians try and win a game. I know I will!


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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    Come on it's fun to take shots at Shaponetti! It sounds like it was taken out of context but it means what it means. No surprise. I see the season ticket holders continue to shrink in size. I know my parents stopped purchasing them in 2006 after having seats for 12 years. It sounds like Shaponetti wants casual fans to attend games. Meaning people will only go to a couple games a year for the experience of a ballgame. Not to watch the Indians try and win a game. I know I will!
    Since I live in St. Louis I end up giving my money to the Royals in KC every year and occasionally in St. Louis against the Cardinals and I think thats why I could care less about it. I no longer buy Indians gear either but a lot is given to me as gifts so I still don't spend money on that. Rather give my money to the Cavs or the Browns.

    And Shap should have said, "if the only reason you are coming to watch the Tribe is to see them to win, then you better come before July". That would have been more true.

    This Guy is Ready!!!

  10. #115
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    He's basically saying that baseball is more than just about winning and losing. It's an experience and I agree with that. There is plenty of nostalgia in baseball. I love that side to but if you're not winning, I can get the nostalgia, fireworks, promotions, buck beer night at minor league parks for about 10 bucks for the good seats and a few beers. I pay to travel to Cleveland + nice seats + food + beer and such to see them win games and hopefully make the playoffs. I'm not traveling to Cleveland (about 4 hrs) to see a pathetic team play for nostalgia's sake. I got a minor league park 5 miles from my house for that.

    Maybe they're hoping for fan outrage to get more money from the ownership but gotta be honest makes it tough rooting for a team you don't even like lol

  11. #116
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    Last week, in an interview with Les Levine that has since gone viral, Shapiro said the following, in response to a question posed to him about why a particular fan should renew his season tickets, given the team’s ostensible inability to compete:

    If you base your decision to come to the game on whether we win or lose, don’t come. You’re missing out. You’re missing out on what baseball is all about, and I’m fine with that.

    So, he’s gonna try that honesty thing out full-bore, huh? I should have made it clear in those earlier pieces—perhaps in a footnote—that I….uh….I don’t work in PR. So…there’s that. Sorry Mark.

    Look. I probably wouldn’t have worded it that way. But what he said ain’t exactly wrong, either. Baseball is a sport where even the best teams lose 60 games each season. If going to the ball game were all about seeing a win and tearing your hair out when they lose, NO ONE IN HER RIGHT MIND WOULD BUY SEASON TICKETS. It’s a guaranteed way to want to die, at least 60 times per year.

    Shapiro’s point, and again, it’s one I largely agree with, is that we don’t go to baseball games strictly to see wins and lament losses. We go because going to ballpark is fun. And because baseball is awesome. And because of green grass and huge flags and cold beers and hot prospects and scorecards and mascots and a thousand other things that are fun about baseball. We hope they win. We wish the system was different. We believe, like almost every team except for a few, that if everything goes just right, we’ll have a chance to win our division.

    So I actually don’t think what Shapiro said was so bad. I think he’d be wise, given his position, not to tell anyone to stay away from the ballpark, but the gist of his comment is fine. Baseball is more than wins and losses. I think Dan Gilbert says the same thing to his fan base. I think Jimmy Haslem will tell you the same thing about the Browns. Buy our tickets. We’re working on building a winner, but in the meantime, come. It’ll be fun.

    I think if we’re all honest about this, the bigger issue here isn’t what was said, but who said it. There is an understandable and overflowing sense of frustration with Mark Shapiro in this town. He has now torn down two lovable teams and is well on his way to tearing down a decidedly less lovable one this winter. Cities don’t take kindly to watching their heroes shipped out of town—no matter the reasoning for it.

    But even more than that, there is a sense that Shapiro—while smart enough and savvy enough to be fine baseball executive—doesn’t deserve another chance to rebuild this team. That’s just not how professional sports work: if you’re lucky, you get to guide a team through one rebuild (though as someone like Eric Mangini can attest, only if you’re lucky). You almost never get to do it more than once, and certainly not if one of your rebuilds looks as much like a failure as this current Indians one does.

    It’s why, even though I can’t really think of who I’d want to run this team instead of Shapiro and Antonetti, that I still thought that after last season’s debacle it was time to move on from their stewardship. Not because they aren’t capable, but because they no longer offer a credible voice to most fans. No matter what they do (short of getting the Dolans to invest a loss in the franchise the way Illitch does in Detroit) they’ll be seen as trying to con fans into seeing a team that doesn’t deserve to be watched. No matter that most teams don’t compete for championships every year. No matter that baseball is inherently unfair economically. No matter that they proved themselves capable and competent more often than not. There is a sense among the fanbase that these guys have had their shot, and that they hoodwinked the city.

    And because I didn’t see how the current front office could maintain a credible voice going forward, I was a bit shocked when the team seemed to double down on them this off-season. Terry Francona was brought aboard, with an out-clause in his contract tied to Shapiro and Antonetti’s continued employment. If they’re lucky, they’ll have to defend trading Chris Perez, Shin-Soo Choo and Asdrubal Cabrera to a city that will be wielding flaming pitchforks like you’ve never seen. And that’s if they’re lucky. If they’re unlucky, they are unable to get sufficient value for those guys and they end up with no influx of talent as their two best players and charismatic closer walk in free agency over the next two years.

    Were any of that to happen under new leadership, I don’t think most of us would bat an eye. After all, new leaders are typically given a grace period to reshape rosters and philosophies, to draft new talent and take their best hacks. But the fact that the same faces are going to be giving the same tired explanations that we’ve been hearing for 15 years now? That our organizational strategy is built around hoping to screw someone on a trade, get lucky in the draft, and compete for a few years on borrowed time?

    I should be clear: that strategy outlined above is the right one to take. It’s the way that small market teams have to compete, and I think Shapiro is probably better at it than most. But listening to him stumble over himself trying to be honest about it is not helping anyone. He comes off as out-of-touch and insensitive. He comes off as antagonistic towards his fan base. He comes off as a prick, even when what he’s saying is mostly true.

    So I’m pretty sure that this time around I have no more advice to offer the front office on their communication strategies. It’s pretty clear that, healthy or not, this has become about the messenger. People are mad at Shapiro and his front office. They don’t trust him. They find his continued employment objectionable—a sinecure for his willingness to walk the Dolan Company Line. He can bring them a World Series winning manager on a platter—a hire that only Shapiro could’ve made and one with whom no one could possibly take issue—and we’ll find a way to be pissed off about it. He can tell us a truth so obvious and mundane that it’s painful to deconstruct, but we’ll start flamewars over it.

    He can look us in the eye and tell us that going to baseball games is fun. And we’ll disagree with him.

    That’s a problem. And one I won’t pretend to be able to fix.
    http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/20...ility-problem/

    Heres a pretty good outline of what you were basically saying Lafferty and what I assume Shaps was meaning. Definately taken out of context but still a PR disaster.

    This Guy is Ready!!!

  12. #117
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    What Shap said does make sense - even if you're a good team you still lose 60+ games. If you went to every game just to watch them win you're going to be disappointed a LOT. I

    It's just the way he said and the timing is awful. Exactly what you'd expect from someone not in PR.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/20...ility-problem/

    Heres a pretty good outline of what you were basically saying Lafferty and what I assume Shaps was meaning. Definately taken out of context but still a PR disaster.
    I started to read this but it's much to do about nothing with a ball club that is one of the worst in MLB. Of course we love those things and of course every team suffers with bad seasons (even the good ones). But when you're the dregs of the league and seemingly doing little to make any significant moves outside signing a Lillibridge or chasing a man with a false identity through South America, perhaps it's time to move on. Comments like this only make one more skeptical of any hope. I'll still support the team but I won't waste any significant funding on games or even waste as much time watching a minor league club until they prove otherwise. And until they prove something sustainable. I don't want a playoff run once every 15 years. Good luck baseball! You're losing fans with this putrid system.


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  14. #119
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    Antonetti is not capable of helping the Indians so He tries and keep Columbus well stocked

  15. #120
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    “@jaysonst: Ran into Indians GM Chris Antonetti, who confirmed he just acquired lunch. Straight cash deal, reliable source reports.”


    Smoke 'em if you've got 'em

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