2007 Indians Discussion

[prodigy]

You're missing my point, I said sign him in 2007 before he hit free agency in fall 2008 much like the Twins did with Mauer

CC made it public that he wanted to test the market. So this was not possible.

[prodigy]

and he would've never known what the Yanks would have offered

WOW! trust me bud, he and his agent knew the numbers. Don't act crazy now, you know darn well someone in the yankee's front office and other teams told his agent numbers.

[ClevelandSpider]

WOW! trust me bud, he and his agent knew the numbers. Don't act crazy now, you know darn well someone in the yankee's front office and other teams told his agent numbers.

Bull, Johan Santana signed the richest contract for a pitcher in 2007 for 6 years 137.5 million and he had 2 Cy Youngs...signing CC in early 2007 before the Santana contract, at my contract outlined, would have made CC the richest first, CC went on to win the Cy Young that year but still he was never as dominate as Santana and I doubt he expected to receive more than 23 mil a year which is what Johan got...if we had offered in early 2007 he wouldve signed, I stand by that, instead we didnt reach a deal, traded him to Milwaukee which killed our ties with him and then he hit the open market...there is no way the Yanks were talking to him in early 2007 about a contract, doing so is against MLB policy, you cant talk to other teams players under contract, thats tampering, in early 2007 CCs agent wet dream would have been a Santana contract, we could preempted that with my offer and he would have accepted...oh well, I'm done with this discussion it's grown stale, we'll agree to disagree

In other news, Hafner signed a 1 year deal with the Yanks for 2mil, quite a paycut, I hope he can budget himself with so little money coming in now haha

[prodigy]

Bull, Johan Santana signed the richest contract for a pitcher in 2007 for 6 years 137.5 million and he had 2 Cy Youngs...signing CC in early 2007 before the Santana contract, at my contract outlined, would have made CC the richest first, CC went on to win the Cy Young that year but still he was never as dominate as Santana and I doubt he expected to receive more than 23 mil a year which is what Johan got...if we had offered in early 2007 he wouldve signed, I stand by that, instead we didnt reach a deal, traded him to Milwaukee which killed our ties with him and then he hit the open market...there is no way the Yanks were talking to him in early 2007 about a contract, doing so is against MLB policy, you cant talk to other teams players under contract, thats tampering, in early 2007 CCs agent wet dream would have been a Santana contract, we could preempted that with my offer and he would have accepted...oh well, I'm done with this discussion it's grown stale, we'll agree to disagree

never gonna happen. ur livin in a fantasy land. cc wanted to test the market. he did and indians being a small market team got blown out the water. never had a shot.

[Sacco111]

WOW! trust me bud, he and his agent knew the numbers. Don't act crazy now, you know darn well someone in the yankee's front office and other teams told his agent numbers.

Prodigy, for once I agree with you. I know there is supposed to be "no tampering" rules in place but lets be honest. These guys have intersts gauged well in advance.

[GeronimoSon]

...the fact of the matter is the Dolans decided Hafner was more important than CC..

No they didn't. Mr Dolan offered to sign Travis Hafner, Jake Westbrook and CC Sabathia. Like usual, you're wrong..

[prodigy]

Again with the insults, like clockwork with you, the Dolans could have offered CC more and got him, its plain and simple, they signed the wrong guy

LOL i can't believe you got me defending the Dolans. That was your master plan right? You were just trying to get me to defend dolan, alright it all makes since now.

you are 100% correct with this statement though, BUT look at my earlier post. Do you know what a payroll is? Even if we resigned CC it would've been for alot more then 21million. would've had to been over 25million a season atleast. We just can't afford that man. would've set us back years, have other postitions to fill other then 1SP spot.

[browniebuck]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....we didn't sign CC, we basically got Michael Brantley for him in the long run...be glad that we aren't the Brewers that gave up something to get him only to have him leave a couple months later. Anyone that thinks that CC was going to sign here before going through the free agent courtship from the Dodgers and Yankees is a damn fool. He wanted to go to a big market...he is a SoCal kid, I am only shocked that he went to NY rather than the Dodgers (he loves to hit).

This team is looking to be better than they have been since '07 and you guys are bickering about whether or not CC would have resigned here before being traded to Milwaukee...when you argue with Geronimo, you never win...he gets the last word and will NEVER admit that he is wrong (even though I don't think that he is on this point)...and when he thinks that someone else has made a solid/valid point, he jumps to insults like a 9 year old...it is pointless to even engage in debates with him.

Instead of this crap...how about we start talking pitchers and catchers reporting in less than 2 weeks!

[ClevelandSpider]

Last CC talk I promise, and I don't mean to offend anyone, I've been a long time lurker, first time poster, I just find it pathetic and annoying to try to have a rational discussion about something that interests everyone here, baseball, and I get childish, immature dolts like Geronimo throwin out insults to those that disagree with him, its unwarranted and unnecessary, he thinks hes on a high horse and comes off as condescending, yet he's just a fan like everyone else...a buddy of mine once said this about internet message boards "it's the only place in the world where skinny, virgin dweebs claim seniority and superior knowledge," that quote came right to mind when reading Geronimos posts...

On CC, what I'm saying is the Indians should have signed him in early 2007 before letting him hit the market, like the Twins did with Joe Mauer...if they signed him to a contract and didnt tender Hafner, they could have made him the highest paid pitcher to date, he wouldnt have refused that offer...6 years 129 million would've got it done, im sure the Dolans didnt want to invest that much in one player, but based on what they offered CC and gave Hafner they could have...a dominant ace like CC can give you 3 starts in a 7 game series, so I think its worth it...prodigy keeps saying he wanted to test the market, yea in 2008, but make him the richest pitcher in history he wouldnt have turned it down, and when he left i believe he took out a full page in the CPD to thank the fans, sure he had the money to do it but not many players do that when they leave in free agency, so I think he liked Cleveland and would have stayed if the Dolans made a better offer...obviously investing so much in Hafner, even when he was struggling beforehand, crippled their efforts to make CC a better offer, the mistake lies in signing Hafner before CC, hindsight is 20-20 tho, so there ends the CC talk...

[ClevelandSpider]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....we didn't sign CC, we basically got Michael Brantley for him in the long run...be glad that we aren't the Brewers that gave up something to get him only to have him leave a couple months later. Anyone that thinks that CC was going to sign here before going through the free agent courtship from the Dodgers and Yankees is a damn fool. He wanted to go to a big market...he is a SoCal kid, I am only shocked that he went to NY rather than the Dodgers (he loves to hit).

This team is looking to be better than they have been since '07 and you guys are bickering about whether or not CC would have resigned here before being traded to Milwaukee...when you argue with Geronimo, you never win...he gets the last word and will NEVER admit that he is wrong (even though I don't think that he is on this point)...and when he thinks that someone else has made a solid/valid point, he jumps to insults like a 9 year old...it is pointless to even engage in debates with him.

Instead of this crap...how about we start talking pitchers and catchers reporting in less than 2 weeks!

It is my experience that people who are so sure of something and start calling others fools turn out the fool in the end, while I respect your analysis, I wholehearted disagree with it

[ClevelandSpider]

LOL i can't believe you got me defending the Dolans. That was your master plan right? You were just trying to get me to defend dolan, alright it all makes since now.

you are 100% correct with this statement though, BUT look at my earlier post. Do you know what a payroll is? Even if we resigned CC it would've been for alot more then 21million. would've had to been over 25million a season atleast. We just can't afford that man. would've set us back years, have other postitions to fill other then 1SP spot.

The Dolans are bad, not as bad as Lerner, but close...they seem to want to play moneyball, but are utterly failing at it, it just irks me when a team like the Marlins can sign all these free agents, win the world series, then get rid of everyone, theyve done it twice!

[GeronimoSon]

Again with the insults, like clockwork with you, the Dolans could have offered CC more and got him, its plain and simple, they signed the wrong guy

Yet CC still wears pinstripes.. so your supposition is flawed..without merit.. garbage... fantasy.. untrue..just like the rest of your statements...

[prodigy]

Last CC talk I promise, and I don't mean to offend anyone, I've been a long time lurker, first time poster, I just find it pathetic and annoying to try to have a rational discussion about something that interests everyone here, baseball, and I get childish, immature dolts like Geronimo throwin out insults to those that disagree with him, its unwarranted and unnecessary, he thinks hes on a high horse and comes off as condescending, yet he's just a fan like everyone else...a buddy of mine once said this about internet message boards "it's the only place in the world where skinny, virgin dweebs claim seniority and superior knowledge," that quote came right to mind when reading Geronimos posts...

On CC, what I'm saying is the Indians should have signed him in early 2007 before letting him hit the market, like the Twins did with Joe Mauer ...

Love having you here man we need more fans and posters on this site for sure. I get what your saying but don't you think the indians tried to sign CC? They tried real hard but heres the thing.

As buck said CC was determined to hit the FA market NO matter what anyone offered. If we offered 30mill a year he would've still waited. He wanted to be in a big market and the yankee's and dodgers could offer way more money then cleveland. CC wanted out.

[ClevelandSpider]

Yet CC still wears pinstripes.. so your supposition is flawed..without merit.. garbage... fantasy.. untrue..just like the rest of your statements...

I've read a lot of your posts man and I've always thought they were garbage, subpar to everyone else's, you've always seemed like someone who would rather start **** than have any meaningful discussion, you got issues and you take them out on people in the forum who like you, are Indians fans, you'd be better served to dish out your anger towards other fan bases but oh well, hope I didn't hurt your feelings with a little bit of TRUTH, cause you certainly didn't hurt mine...

[ClevelandSpider]

Love having you here man we need more fans and posters on this site for sure. I get what your saying but don't you think the indians tried to sign CC? They tried real hard but heres the thing.

As buck said CC was determined to hit the FA market NO matter what anyone offered. If we offered 30mill a year he would've still waited. He wanted to be in a big market and the yankee's and dodgers could offer way more money then cleveland. CC wanted out.

That's the problem with hypotheticals, when it comes down to it, it's everyones opinion, I have my take and you have yours, however we disagree I respect your position, I feel like CC wouldn't have minded staying on the shores of Lake Erie if only we had made a better offer, but oh well its in the past, I look forward to seeing the start of spring training, I think we got a scrappy group of guys that might, just might be able to scrape out a .500 season and contend for the playoffs in August but ultimately fall short