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  1. #76
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    @MLBastian: The Aaron Cunningham Era in Cleveland is officially over. Outfielder signs with Rangers. He left town a squeeze-bunt hero.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    I really am hoping that Ants trades ACab this offseason just due to the fact that I think he would net the most in return and net the most ready MLB players. Living in St. Louis there is a lot of chatter right now about the Cardinals interest in him and they are very deep in their farm system. I would not mind seeing something like this:

    Seth Blair SP
    Matt Carpenter Util
    Matt Adams 1B

    for

    ACab

    Adams is ready to play in the league at 1B and would be a very good power bat in this lineup. Blair is possibly 1 to 2 years away from contributing but I don't see the Cardinals parting with their stup P prospects in Rosenthal, Miller or Martinez and I don't see Lynn or Kelly being anything more than a #4 starter in the AL. Blair has the best upside of probably the non untouchables in their organization. Carpenter would be a great addition too as his bat is lively and if they do get rid of Choo they can stick Carps in RF at times while also DH'ing him on other days.

    This leaves Aviles starting at SS which I would not have a problem with next year while waiting for Walters, Diaz or Lindor in the next couple years. Also then they could possibly still look at moving Choo for LF/DH help or sign Youk for DH help and use Choo for LF/SP help. I would hold onto Masterson right now and CP probably would bring nothing back in return besides a prospect that would be a couple years off.
    Aviles is a backup and with be total disaster as the everyday SS.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panthers4life View Post
    i think we will trade asdrubal, choo and cp this off season..
    -i have seen quite a few rumors about the angels trying to get cp for peter bourjos which would be a good deal in my opinion
    -i think we can turn the asdrubal deal into a very big one. The Diamondback have justin upton on the block, they want ss/3b or pitching. Now i would deff take a trade centered around asdrubal for upton. would be a nice big time power bat to play in the outfield for us.
    -that leaves us with choo. choo and masterson to the red sox for middlebrooks and jon lackey(with them eating majority of the salary). okay that last trade may be a stretch, but it may entice them if it helps them get rid of lackeys contract and they are said to be interested in both choo and masty.
    -lets just for laughs look at the lineup with these transactions, which 2 actually aren't far from stretches at all.

    1. LF-Bourjos, SH
    2. CF-Brantley, LHH
    3. RF-Upton, RHH
    4. C-Santana, SH
    5. 1B/DH-Middlebrooks, RH
    6. 2B-Kipnis, LHH
    7. DH/1B-Youkilis, RHH
    8. 3B-Chisenhall
    9. SS-Aviles, RHH

    thats much more competitive, and if you take away the boston trade and put choo in instead of middlebrooks that lineup is much better
    Where are you getting these from. Choo is not going to Boston with 1 yr left ask Ellsbury. How and who are giving up for Upton. Middlebrooks is the everyday 3B for the Red Sox. Who the hell wants Lackey. Youkilis is past his prime, and Bourjos is not really a good hitter.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0007joek View Post
    Where are you getting these from. Choo is not going to Boston with 1 yr left ask Ellsbury. How and who are giving up for Upton. Middlebrooks is the everyday 3B for the Red Sox. Who the hell wants Lackey. Youkilis is past his prime, and Bourjos is not really a good hitter.
    This is what is wrong with our fanbase...we want the team to do something to try to improve the ballclub, but we piss and moan that this guy sucks, this guy is past his prime, this guy won't come here, etc... As fans we are throwing names out there that we think would be possible (Middlebrooks ain'g gonna happen for anything less than Cabrera). We don't have the luxury of getting the big names to come here when they ARE big names, we have to hope that after they have blown it somewhere that they can come here and put together a solid season or two.

    If you are okay with standing pat with what we have, or worse yet...a firesale, let me know how that is going to help the Dolan's toward their ultimate goal of filling that ballpark up with fans.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by browniebuck View Post
    This is what is wrong with our fanbase...we want the team to do something to try to improve the ballclub, but we piss and moan that this guy sucks, this guy is past his prime, this guy won't come here, etc... As fans we are throwing names out there that we think would be possible (Middlebrooks ain'g gonna happen for anything less than Cabrera). We don't have the luxury of getting the big names to come here when they ARE big names, we have to hope that after they have blown it somewhere that they can come here and put together a solid season or two.

    If you are okay with standing pat with what we have, or worse yet...a firesale, let me know how that is going to help the Dolan's toward their ultimate goal of filling that ballpark up with fans.
    10 cent Beer Night could go a long way for one night.

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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0007joek View Post
    Aviles is a backup and with be total disaster as the everyday SS.
    He is a stopgap if Drubs is traded while the team would be rebuilding waiting for one of Lindor, Diaz, Wolters or Rodriguez. If this team is going to rebuild the best position to do it would be with trading Drubs IMO since you have a guy in Aviles that can play for a year while seeing if one of the 3 of the top 10 prospects they have in the farm can come in around September and ultimately take over in 2014. Paulino is the youngest so I didn't add him to the list over the other 4. Drubs is going to get the most return out of anyone on the roster right now. The only question the FO has to ask itself is "Do they think they can compete next year or do they feel the need they need to rebuild the team." I honestly would like a rebuild. Keep players like Santana, Kipnis, Brantley and Chiz for your offensive building pieces and go out and get some youth pitching with guys like Choo, Drubs and CP this offseason. I would hold onto Masterson right now though to see if Francona can get anything out of him with their past relationship and then see where they are at the deadline with him.

    Honestly I don't see this team competing at least until 2015 with how this team is currently setup or even if they do end up rebuilding it due to the fact that most of the top prospects in the minors are 20 and under still. Lindor probably won't be ready till 2015 but Aviles could be the stopgap next year with one of Diaz, Wolters or Rodriguez taking over just for 2014. Aguilar and Chen won't be ready till 2015 IMO nor Washington, Luigi or Naquin. If two of those players along with a seasoned Brantley could be ready by 2015 I think that would be huge and you could even throw in Tyler Holt in there. Not a lot of power but guys that can get on base where at that time you would hope Aguilars bat along with Kipnis, Santana and Chiz's are in the middle of the order.

    The major worrisome is the starting pitching staff and thats why I believe if this team is going to compete in the future be it how many years that they need to get starting pitching depth and youth soon as the farm is very down where you don't know what you are going to get out of guys like Howard, Sisco, Brown, McFarland, Packer and House.
    Last edited by ottograham14; 11-14-2012 at 09:34 AM.

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by browniebuck View Post
    If our roster is so bad...why do you expect other teams to give us near major league ready talent in return for them? The farm system sucks because the people in charge have done a piss poor job of drafting.
    Your opening argument here doesn't even make any sense. Just because the team sucks doesn't mean that Cabrera, Choo, Perez are worthless. We could certainly net a few impact prospects (hopefully pitchers) for those guys, especially Cabrera.

    Quote Originally Posted by browniebuck View Post
    This team is a few players away from being able to contend for the Wild Card. We need an upgrade at 1B, a LF, a DH (could come from within), and a middle of the rotation type of starter. If we trade Choo...I understand that one, Boras is going to have him walk after this year. Cabrera, Masterson, Perez, Santana...they are under team control for another couple years. If we trade all of that talent, we then need a 1B, LF, RF, C, SS, Closer/Set-up Man, and MORE starting pitching.
    Exactly, we're more than a few players away from being able to contend. We were arguably the worst team in the AL last year. So once Choo is gone, which he will be, we're even farther away. Now, you KNOW we're not spending any money to get these upgrades, so you can rule that out. You say that solid, MLB-ready talents could "come from within" at 1B, LF, or DH. Tell me, where? Point me to a few players in our farm system who could impact at the major-league level at these positions with some figures to back up your claims. I'll save you the time, you can't, because there aren't any. Our farm system is ranked in the bottom 5 for a reason, we only have one real prospect and that's Lindor and he's still several years away. Unless you want to have absolutely NOTHING besides Kipnis and Santana once all our guys walk, then we need to trade for prospects who can perform like Kipnis and Santana are right now as rookies/second-years once they're entering their prime.

    Quote Originally Posted by browniebuck View Post
    With the record of this leadership group...what makes you think that they will make trades that will ultimately pan out? Matt LaPorta? Jason Knapp? Ubaldo Jimenez? Seems like a great idea to start shipping out our current core to get back that type of return! The players that have turned into anything from those deals were the "afterthought"/PTBNL type of players.

    I am sorry that I don't have the same faith in our front office that you do...they have shown me little to have believe in. Their limited endeavors into free agency have turned into busts, their drafting SUCKS, their trade history doesn't make me at all optimistic, and now we have a new manager...are we going to strip the team down and expect Francona to succeed?
    Right, which is why I said we have to rebuild RIGHT. Yes, they've screwed up this method of building a team in the past. Doesn't mean it's the wrong way, just means we did it wrong. Look at what the A's did this offseason. We just have to do it right. Either that or we can wait a few years that we're not going to contend in anyway like the last few seasons and watch Choo and Cabrera and Perez leave then be left with nothing to suck for another 5+ years. By trading away Cabrera, Choo and Perez for prospects we at least have a hope to make an impact in a few years when those guys reach the major-league level and guys like Kipnis, Santana, Chisenhall and Masterson are (hopefully) in their prime. Yeah, it may not work, and with the history of our FO it's hard to have much faith. But you have to at least try, you can't just do nothing. We are guaranteed to be in the cellar for many more years to come if we don't do something.

    If we had a good farm system, then fine. See what you can do to contend with the core of guys we have, plus a couple low-to-mid level free agents, and if it doesn't work then it's OK because we still have solid young guys coming up from the minors to replace them. But we have NOBODY in the minors, so we have to do something to change that. I don't see how any Indians fan can't see that right now.
    Last edited by iAugust; 11-14-2012 at 11:25 AM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAugust View Post
    Your opening argument here doesn't even make any sense. Just because the team sucks doesn't mean that Cabrera, Choo, Perez are worthless. We could certainly net a few impact prospects (hopefully pitchers) for those guys, especially Cabrera.



    Exactly, we're more than a few players away from being able to contend. We were arguably the worst team in the AL last year. So once Choo is gone, which he will be, we're even farther away. Now, you KNOW we're not spending any money to get these upgrades, so you can rule that out. You say that solid, MLB-ready talents could "come from within" at 1B, LF, or DH. Tell me, where? Point me to a few players in our farm system who could impact at the major-league level at these positions with some figures to back up your claims. I'll save you the time, you can't, because there aren't any. Our farm system is ranked in the bottom 5 for a reason, we only have one real prospect and that's Lindor and he's still several years away. Unless you want to have absolutely NOTHING besides Kipnis and Santana once all our guys walk, then we need to trade for prospects who can perform like Kipnis and Santana are right now as rookies/second-years once they're entering their prime.



    Right, which is why I said we have to rebuild RIGHT. Yes, they've screwed up this method of building a team in the past. Doesn't mean it's the wrong way, just means we did it wrong. Look at what the A's did this offseason. We just have to do it right. Either that or we can wait a few years that we're not going to contend in anyway like the last few seasons and watch Choo and Cabrera and Perez leave then be left with nothing to suck for another 5+ years. By trading away Cabrera, Choo and Perez for prospects we at least have a hope to make an impact in a few years when those guys reach the major-league level and guys like Kipnis, Santana, Chisenhall and Masterson are (hopefully) in their prime. Yeah, it may not work, and with the history of our FO it's hard to have much faith. But you have to at least try, you can't just do nothing. We are guaranteed to be in the cellar for many more years to come if we don't do something.

    If we had a good farm system, then fine. See what you can do to contend with the core of guys we have, plus a couple low-to-mid level free agents, and if it doesn't work then it's OK because we still have solid young guys coming up from the minors to replace them. But we have NOBODY in the minors, so we have to do something to change that. I don't see how any Indians fan can't see that right now.
    The Tribe has guys in the farm but they are all the top prospects still 2-4 years away where most of them are still under 20 and havent passed Single A yet. That is why it would be smart to rebuild right now so that the core guys they do have in Kipnis, Brantley, Santana and Chiz on the offensive side and hopefully Masterson (if kept), McAllister, Kluber, Pestano and Carrasco (if he is able to return to form) can become seasoned and you just hope that the youth in 2-3 years where the core is in their prime will be ready to come up and contribute. Add in a couple veteran FA's in those years like the A's do when they feel they are ready to contend and you have to hope it pans out because in todays day and age Cleveland will only get a 2 year window out of each 5 years and that is just the way the sport is now. Thats why I think right now this team needs to be looking at 2015 and 2016 to compete. Get all the starting pitching prospects you can to go with the recent draftees the Indians have obtained at that position and hope that 4 to 5 guys pan out. Sadly that is all we as Indians fans can do is hope that things pan out because the Dolans arent going to make it easy by signing 100 million dollar men every year to mask the shortcomings of the team that year. Have to build the prospects which they have a huge lack of right now but should be better in 2 years when the youngsters are more seasoned to even think of contending in Cleveland and IMO every year they are not in the race come the deadline they should be sellers trying to obtain younger more controllable players for any players on the roster that aren't signed for 2 years or more at that time.

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  9. #84
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    “@TJZuppe: Dolans no. 4 RT @DKnobler: One more from @EyeOnBaseball: MLB's five worst owners (any guesses who tops the list?) http://t.co/GxootTd9”

  10. #85
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    scratch Melky Cabrera off our Christmas wish list...he is heading to Toronto for 2 years $16 million.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by browniebuck View Post
    scratch Melky Cabrera off our Christmas wish list...he is heading to Toronto for 2 years $16 million.
    Yeah... Not surprised. I will be surprised if they do anything significant.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    Yeah... Not surprised. I will be surprised if they do anything significant.
    So you're saying Jason bay isn't significant. LOL. If they do anything big this year it will be through trade as we should all be use to this by now. They will bring in some FA's either coming off injury plagued season trying to get their games back where the Tribe can try selling at the deadline or guys over 35 that they try getting one last go of it off of to as well just end up selling at the deadline if they are doing anything at that time.

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  13. #88
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    Think the biggest offseason signing we might make is Youkilis. Other than that I see someone like Ludwick, Cody Ross, Scott Hairston, Jonny Gomes being our big "splash"

    Just hoping we can trade Choo, Cabrera, Perez and get a nice haul in return with some good young SPs

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAugust View Post
    Think the biggest offseason signing we might make is Youkilis. Other than that I see someone like Ludwick, Cody Ross, Scott Hairston, Jonny Gomes being our big "splash"

    Just hoping we can trade Choo, Cabrera, Perez and get a nice haul in return with some good young SPs
    If they can get Victorino and Youkilis to sign here though which are the two names that are being heavily mentioned then what is that saying. Too aging veterans that will probably only come here if they offer 2-3 year deals. Does that mean the Tribe keeps someone like Cabrera to try doing something in a 2-3 year window and keep Choo at least till the deadline to see where they are record and division race wise. If they are out then they trade him or if they are in it they keep him and take the draft pick in 2013 offseason.

    The FO has a lot of questions they need to figure out this offseason. I have heard that they will probably stay around the 65 million in salary plateau. I think they will wait on trades for a at least another month or two to see if they can get any FA's here and to also see how the market plays out where if a team misses on a corner OF'er or a SS then the Tribe can try taking advantage with Choo and Cabrera on the market depending on how FA went.

    Either way I don't see any reason to keep Chris Perez at this point. They need to trade him for either a young SP prospect possibly a year or two away or a upcoming corner OF'er.

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  15. #90
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    Get in line to buy your World Series tickets, Tribe Fans!!!

    Today, the Tribe announced 2 free agent signings.

    OF Matt Carson - last year at AAA Rochester (Minnesota's AAA Affiliate), he hit .282 with 14 HR and 53 RBI.
    OF Cedric Hunter - last year at AAA Memphis (St. Louis' AAA Affiliate), he hit .268 with 5 HR and 44 RBI

    Combined, they have played 78 games in the Big Leagues. The search for outfielders is OVER!!!

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