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  1. #61
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    I really am hoping that Ants trades ACab this offseason just due to the fact that I think he would net the most in return and net the most ready MLB players. Living in St. Louis there is a lot of chatter right now about the Cardinals interest in him and they are very deep in their farm system. I would not mind seeing something like this:

    Seth Blair SP
    Matt Carpenter Util
    Matt Adams 1B

    for

    ACab

    Adams is ready to play in the league at 1B and would be a very good power bat in this lineup. Blair is possibly 1 to 2 years away from contributing but I don't see the Cardinals parting with their stup P prospects in Rosenthal, Miller or Martinez and I don't see Lynn or Kelly being anything more than a #4 starter in the AL. Blair has the best upside of probably the non untouchables in their organization. Carpenter would be a great addition too as his bat is lively and if they do get rid of Choo they can stick Carps in RF at times while also DH'ing him on other days.

    This leaves Aviles starting at SS which I would not have a problem with next year while waiting for Walters, Diaz or Lindor in the next couple years. Also then they could possibly still look at moving Choo for LF/DH help or sign Youk for DH help and use Choo for LF/SP help. I would hold onto Masterson right now and CP probably would bring nothing back in return besides a prospect that would be a couple years off.

    HOYERMANIA!!!

  2. #62
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    i think we will trade asdrubal, choo and cp this off season..
    -i have seen quite a few rumors about the angels trying to get cp for peter bourjos which would be a good deal in my opinion
    -i think we can turn the asdrubal deal into a very big one. The Diamondback have justin upton on the block, they want ss/3b or pitching. Now i would deff take a trade centered around asdrubal for upton. would be a nice big time power bat to play in the outfield for us.
    -that leaves us with choo. choo and masterson to the red sox for middlebrooks and jon lackey(with them eating majority of the salary). okay that last trade may be a stretch, but it may entice them if it helps them get rid of lackeys contract and they are said to be interested in both choo and masty.
    -lets just for laughs look at the lineup with these transactions, which 2 actually aren't far from stretches at all.

    1. LF-Bourjos, SH
    2. CF-Brantley, LHH
    3. RF-Upton, RHH
    4. C-Santana, SH
    5. 1B/DH-Middlebrooks, RH
    6. 2B-Kipnis, LHH
    7. DH/1B-Youkilis, RHH
    8. 3B-Chisenhall
    9. SS-Aviles, RHH

    thats much more competitive, and if you take away the boston trade and put choo in instead of middlebrooks that lineup is much better

    The start of something great to come in Carolina, bring on the haters!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panthers4life View Post
    i think we will trade asdrubal, choo and cp this off season..
    -i have seen quite a few rumors about the angels trying to get cp for peter bourjos which would be a good deal in my opinion
    -i think we can turn the asdrubal deal into a very big one. The Diamondback have justin upton on the block, they want ss/3b or pitching. Now i would deff take a trade centered around asdrubal for upton. would be a nice big time power bat to play in the outfield for us.
    -that leaves us with choo. choo and masterson to the red sox for middlebrooks and jon lackey(with them eating majority of the salary). okay that last trade may be a stretch, but it may entice them if it helps them get rid of lackeys contract and they are said to be interested in both choo and masty.
    -lets just for laughs look at the lineup with these transactions, which 2 actually aren't far from stretches at all.

    1. LF-Bourjos, SH
    2. CF-Brantley, LHH
    3. RF-Upton, RHH
    4. C-Santana, SH
    5. 1B/DH-Middlebrooks, RH
    6. 2B-Kipnis, LHH
    7. DH/1B-Youkilis, RHH
    8. 3B-Chisenhall
    9. SS-Aviles, RHH

    thats much more competitive, and if you take away the boston trade and put choo in instead of middlebrooks that lineup is much better
    Upton's not coming here and thats just not me saying that. He has a no trade clause to specific teams and the Tribe are one of them. Can't blame the guy. And no way Boston trades one of their building blocks Middlebrooks. I think they actually have said he is untouchable. He was the reason they got rid of Youk last year so easily.

    HOYERMANIA!!!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    I really am hoping that Ants trades ACab this offseason just due to the fact that I think he would net the most in return and net the most ready MLB players. Living in St. Louis there is a lot of chatter right now about the Cardinals interest in him and they are very deep in their farm system. I would not mind seeing something like this:

    Seth Blair SP
    Matt Carpenter Util
    Matt Adams 1B

    for

    ACab

    Adams is ready to play in the league at 1B and would be a very good power bat in this lineup. Blair is possibly 1 to 2 years away from contributing but I don't see the Cardinals parting with their stup P prospects in Rosenthal, Miller or Martinez and I don't see Lynn or Kelly being anything more than a #4 starter in the AL. Blair has the best upside of probably the non untouchables in their organization. Carpenter would be a great addition too as his bat is lively and if they do get rid of Choo they can stick Carps in RF at times while also DH'ing him on other days.

    This leaves Aviles starting at SS which I would not have a problem with next year while waiting for Walters, Diaz or Lindor in the next couple years. Also then they could possibly still look at moving Choo for LF/DH help or sign Youk for DH help and use Choo for LF/SP help. I would hold onto Masterson right now and CP probably would bring nothing back in return besides a prospect that would be a couple years off.
    That's good and fine. And I agree that they should trade Asdrubal, as well as Perez, and Choo. But this team will continue to be unwatchable. By making these trades they have admitted that they failed with the rebuild, and even more importantly with drafting. They may as well go ahead and trade Santana, Pestano, Kipnis, Brantley, and Chisenhall while they're at it.
    The Dolans, and Shaponetti have continued to piss off myself and most fans and can enjoy another empty stadium for several years.
    Last edited by Arch Stanton; 11-10-2012 at 03:18 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panthers4life View Post
    i think we will trade asdrubal, choo and cp this off season..
    -i have seen quite a few rumors about the angels trying to get cp for peter bourjos which would be a good deal in my opinion
    -i think we can turn the asdrubal deal into a very big one. The Diamondback have justin upton on the block, they want ss/3b or pitching. Now i would deff take a trade centered around asdrubal for upton. would be a nice big time power bat to play in the outfield for us.
    -that leaves us with choo. choo and masterson to the red sox for middlebrooks and jon lackey(with them eating majority of the salary). okay that last trade may be a stretch, but it may entice them if it helps them get rid of lackeys contract and they are said to be interested in both choo and masty.
    -lets just for laughs look at the lineup with these transactions, which 2 actually aren't far from stretches at all.

    1. LF-Bourjos, SH
    2. CF-Brantley, LHH
    3. RF-Upton, RHH
    4. C-Santana, SH
    5. 1B/DH-Middlebrooks, RH
    6. 2B-Kipnis, LHH
    7. DH/1B-Youkilis, RHH
    8. 3B-Chisenhall
    9. SS-Aviles, RHH

    thats much more competitive, and if you take away the boston trade and put choo in instead of middlebrooks that lineup is much better
    You're way too optimistic! You won't get Middlebrooks from the Red Sox for Choo when the Sox can just wait until he's a FA and sign him.
    Unfortunately the Tribe need to restock the farm since they've sucked at drafting for years.

  6. #66
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    the problem with the tribe's drafting isn't the last 2 or 3 years, it's the 5-6 years before that. That is what is really screwing this whole team up. those guys by now would be in their early to mid-20s depending on his age at the draft. this is why they have zero depth. those draft classes should be peaking right now and clearly the tribe has nothing in the tanks. unfortunately the real solution is to blow everything up. Fire the owner (won't happen), fire the prez (won't happen), GM (won't happen), trade any and all talent (probably will but won't get good value in return). i have zero faith in shaponetti. they have run their course in cleveland.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    Upton's not coming here and thats just not me saying that. He has a no trade clause to specific teams and the Tribe are one of them. Can't blame the guy. And no way Boston trades one of their building blocks Middlebrooks. I think they actually have said he is untouchable. He was the reason they got rid of Youk last year so easily.
    that was last season, those teams have since changed. the rangers tried to acquire andrelton simmons from the braves to send to ariz, if you dont think ariz would take asdrubal you are crazy my man

    The start of something great to come in Carolina, bring on the haters!

  8. #68
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    “@Buster_ESPN: Not surprisingly, the Indians have targeted young starting pitching as they begin the process of taking offers for Asdrubal Cabrera, others.”

  9. #69
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    The Cleveland Indians once had a 10-cent beer night. It ended with nudity and a large riot!


    On June 4, 1974 the Cleveland Indians played the Texas Rangers and held a ten cent beer night at the field. A week before the game there had been a brawl between the two teams. The crowd got super drunk at the game and began misbehaving.

    A father and son ran onto the field and mooned everyone in the bleachers and a woman ran onto the Indians deck and flashed everyone and then tried to kiss the umpire. Then a man ran stark naked and slid into second base as Grieve hit his second home run of the night.

    The game took a turn for the worse when Leron Lee of Cleveland hit a line drive that hit Rangers pitcher Ferguson Jenkins in the stomach, causing him to fall down. The fans chanted for Lee to do it again. The fans got worse and started shooting fireworks into the Rangers’ dugout, throwing hotdogs at them, and spitting at them.

    In the 9th inning, a fan tried to steal a Ranger player’s hat, making the Ranger fall. The manager thought the player had been attacked and ran onto the field with the Ranger players wielding bats.

    The Indian’s fans came at them with knives, chains, and stadium chairs they’d ripped loose. The umpire called for a forfeit in favor of the Rangers.

    (Source)


    Read more at http://www.omg-facts.com/Sports/The-...L7r2AEjmVM7.99

  10. #70
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    My father was in the upper deck for that game...lol!

    If the Tribe goes through with trading every piece that they have in their latest rebuilding project...another $0.10 beer night will be the only way that they fill the seats! The attendance was near the bottom of the league last year, the Dolan's have come out and said that they won't spend until attendance increases, and Shaponetti is planning on selling off the only players on the roster that anyone wants to come out to see? Makes PERFECT sense to me!

    As a Cleveland sports fan, I am sick and freaking tired of rebuilding projects! Cavaliers fans are talking about shipping Anderson Varejao out to the highest bidder when they should be trying to get the young guys to play a little more like him! Tribe fans are talking about trading Asdrubal Cabrera, Shin Soo Choo, Justin Masterson, Chris Perez, Vinnie Pestano, and I've even heard Jason Kipnis' name mentioned!!! The Browns...well, Pat Shurmur has been here for 2 years...time to clean house and let someone else take the reigns...completely changing the offensive and defensive schemes, JUST what we need!!! And people wonder why free agents won't come to Cleveland??? Nobody wants to come here because we are in a perpetual state of rebuild!

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by browniebuck View Post
    my father was in the upper deck for that game...lol!

    If the tribe goes through with trading every piece that they have in their latest rebuilding project...another $0.10 beer night will be the only way that they fill the seats! The attendance was near the bottom of the league last year, the dolan's have come out and said that they won't spend until attendance increases, and shaponetti is planning on selling off the only players on the roster that anyone wants to come out to see? Makes perfect sense to me!

    As a cleveland sports fan, i am sick and freaking tired of rebuilding projects! Cavaliers fans are talking about shipping anderson varejao out to the highest bidder when they should be trying to get the young guys to play a little more like him! Tribe fans are talking about trading asdrubal cabrera, shin soo choo, justin masterson, chris perez, vinnie pestano, and i've even heard jason kipnis' name mentioned!!! The browns...well, pat shurmur has been here for 2 years...time to clean house and let someone else take the reigns...completely changing the offensive and defensive schemes, just what we need!!! And people wonder why free agents won't come to cleveland??? Nobody wants to come here because we are in a perpetual state of rebuild!
    +1

  12. #72
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    What do you guys suggest we do, then? We've got a bottom 5 farm system with enough major league talent to win about 70 games, and play in a small market with owners that don't spend money. You know what that spells? DROUGHT

    Should we just play another full season without making any moves, finish in 4th place again and watch Shin-Soo Choo walk at the end of the year?

    I know it sucks but we HAVE to replenish the farm system. If we had a top 5 farm system right now then sure, play it out, hope a couple B or A level talents in AAA come up and make an impact alongside guys like Cabrera, Kipnis and Choo this year and maybe we make a wild card.

    But that's not going to happen. We've proven that we don't have a winning roster over the last 2 seasons so we HAVE to start looking towards the future, and the future looks REALLY bleak with what we have in the minors.

    I say trade Cabrera, Choo and Perez this offseason and get as big of a haul as you can get with near-impact prospects. Guys that will be ready in 1-3 years time. Right-handed bats with some pop and promising starting pitchers. Let Aviles play SS this year, let Pestano close, hope Masterson figures it out this year and build the team around Kipnis, Santana and Masterson.

    If we don't start replenishing the farm system now then there will be NO ONE around those 3 guys in 3 years when they're all in their primes. Guaranteed. Starting the rebuilding now at least gives us the chance to surround those guys with good young talent in a few years. I know it sucks to watch our teams lose and rebuild and lose and rebuild but that's the problem of a small market team. We just have to do it RIGHT.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAugust View Post
    What do you guys suggest we do, then? We've got a bottom 5 farm system with enough major league talent to win about 70 games, and play in a small market with owners that don't spend money. You know what that spells? DROUGHT

    Should we just play another full season without making any moves, finish in 4th place again and watch Shin-Soo Choo walk at the end of the year?

    I know it sucks but we HAVE to replenish the farm system. If we had a top 5 farm system right now then sure, play it out, hope a couple B or A level talents in AAA come up and make an impact alongside guys like Cabrera, Kipnis and Choo this year and maybe we make a wild card.

    But that's not going to happen. We've proven that we don't have a winning roster over the last 2 seasons so we HAVE to start looking towards the future, and the future looks REALLY bleak with what we have in the minors.

    I say trade Cabrera, Choo and Perez this offseason and get as big of a haul as you can get with near-impact prospects. Guys that will be ready in 1-3 years time. Right-handed bats with some pop and promising starting pitchers. Let Aviles play SS this year, let Pestano close, hope Masterson figures it out this year and build the team around Kipnis, Santana and Masterson.

    If we don't start replenishing the farm system now then there will be NO ONE around those 3 guys in 3 years when they're all in their primes. Guaranteed. Starting the rebuilding now at least gives us the chance to surround those guys with good young talent in a few years. I know it sucks to watch our teams lose and rebuild and lose and rebuild but that's the problem of a small market team. We just have to do it RIGHT.
    If our roster is so bad...why do you expect other teams to give us near major league ready talent in return for them? The farm system sucks because the people in charge have done a piss poor job of drafting.

    This team is a few players away from being able to contend for the Wild Card. We need an upgrade at 1B, a LF, a DH (could come from within), and a middle of the rotation type of starter. If we trade Choo...I understand that one, Boras is going to have him walk after this year. Cabrera, Masterson, Perez, Santana...they are under team control for another couple years. If we trade all of that talent, we then need a 1B, LF, RF, C, SS, Closer/Set-up Man, and MORE starting pitching.

    With the record of this leadership group...what makes you think that they will make trades that will ultimately pan out? Matt LaPorta? Jason Knapp? Ubaldo Jimenez? Seems like a great idea to start shipping out our current core to get back that type of return! The players that have turned into anything from those deals were the "afterthought"/PTBNL type of players.

    I am sorry that I don't have the same faith in our front office that you do...they have shown me little to have believe in. Their limited endeavors into free agency have turned into busts, their drafting SUCKS, their trade history doesn't make me at all optimistic, and now we have a new manager...are we going to strip the team down and expect Francona to succeed?

    Doesn't make any sense....must mean that we ARE going to do it!!!

  14. #74
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    So the Indians are said to be interested in Victorino? We've all seen this offseason before. Indians throw out some big-name free agents to get fans excited. Throw a few million on the table and get completely outbid. Then they can say at least they tried.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheRoo View Post
    So the Indians are said to be interested in Victorino? We've all seen this offseason before. Indians throw out some big-name free agents to get fans excited. Throw a few million on the table and get completely outbid. Then they can say at least they tried.
    Victorino is nothing to get excited about. 5 years ago sure.

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