Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate:24150551
Quote Originally Posted by Milnertime View Post
Hard to include statistics that the websites doing the calculations don't actually carry.

They should, they honestly should, we live in an age where so much information is available.

Infield singles and ground rule doubles aren't worth anything more or less than other singles or doubles in evaluating skill/production. The only thing that makes them more or less valuable events is the ability for runners to advance further. There is a difference in the value between a regular single and an infield single in terms of run production, yes. The problem is that difference is not a reflection of something the hitter had control over.

Well the same could be said for being hit by a pitch, outside of covering the plate, the hitter has no control about where the ball is going to land. Also bunt singles are infield singles and the hitter does have control in that situation so I respectfully disagree here. So what should be in wOBA, stats that the player has no control over or production in which there is varying degrees on luck?

Why do you think all home runs are counted the same in wOBA? Is a grand slam not worth more than a solo homer? Batting with the bases loaded isn't a skill, though, so differentiating between them doesn't allow wOBA to accomplish it's stated purpose.

Getting an infield single, a perfect example is Ichiro, is a skill. The guy slaps the ball and because of his speed, he manages to get alot of infield singles.

The ground rule double should count simply because it is being scored that way. To the team a regular double has more value than a ground rule double has.

Again, is wOBA measuring production only or skill?


There are other statistics that you can use to reflect hit types and results more accurately, although those statistics aren't very predictive. wOBA is.

WPA and RE24 are what you might be looking for.

ROE isn't included because it's a noise issue in the data. There is some skill involved which would seem to warrant its inclusion. MGL has said he uses "implied ROE" in his linear weights when he calculates out values for different events. Basically, a ground ball gets a slightly different value than a K.
All good and true, I never had any gripes about any other stats really, just wOBA for my reasons stated, and again, it IS getting better.

Just curious, can you name all of the advanced stats in baseball?
Hitters cannot control who and how many people are on base when they bat.

The number of men on and their location on the bases is the only reason why different kinds of hits are more or less valuable. I don't get why you can't see that. The batter literally has zero control over the situations they bat in. Only what they do in their PA.