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  1. #1
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    While On The Topic Of Ridiculous Individual Seasons...

    Cliff Lee became just the 2nd pitcher in MLB history after Cy Young him-****ing-self to ring-up 200+ Ks and less than 30 walks.

    Wow. And he went 6-9 LOL... Wins... LOL
    Alshon's Athletic Bloodlines Run Deep (AND CATCH EVERYTHING)


  2. #2
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    Yah he got really ridiculous the last half of the season

  3. #3
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    Yeah, I noticed his K/BB the other night, and wow

  4. #4
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    Cliff Lee's 2012 season is a prototypical example of why wins and lose record is really irrelevant in judging a pitcher

  5. #5
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    the phillies offense clearly blows
    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

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  6. #6
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    He had the worst run support, sheesh


    His 3.20/9 was the 4th worst in baseball

    Worse than him?
    Josh Johnson
    Jeff Shark
    Anibal Sanchez

  7. #7
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    6-9?

    He was terrible

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    6-9?

    He was terrible
    How is he supposed to get wins if his team doesn't score any runs?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    How is he supposed to get wins if his team doesn't score any runs?
    That's his problem!

  10. #10
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    Yeah he's in the NL. Hike up your skirt, grab a bat, and win.
    Alshon's Athletic Bloodlines Run Deep (AND CATCH EVERYTHING)


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
    Cliff Lee's 2012 season is a prototypical example of why wins and lose record is really irrelevant in judging a pitcher
    So on a serious note, and to broach another thread that is happening right now, I take exception with this comment.

    In this thread:
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...766319&page=27

    The question was asked why sabr stat heads and non-sabr stat heads have so much conflict.

    I think your response above is indicative of 1 major reason why. To be clear, this is not to imply that you are or are not a sabr stat-head. I'm simply using your response as an example.

    IMO, a pitcher's win/loss record is important. Is it more important than ERA or WHIP for example? No, I don't think it is. But when a guy wins 15 games a year or loses 15 games a year, I wanna know why. How much of it was his fault or not his fault? A guy like Mike Mussina, for example, won 15 games a year for the two teams he played for every year. That's pretty darn impressive, IMO.

    Here's my rationale behind my thinking: Sports, baseball specifically, is a game played by humans. As humans, no matter the circumstances, we don't always feel the same way every day. Sometimes we have a stiff neck, or didn't get a good night sleep, or ate bad Chinese food, etc.

    To expect peak performance with each outing, as stat-heads would have you do in all their arguments, is simply irrational and illogical.

    But when there's a guy who finds a way to keep his team in a game, even though he doesn't have his best stuff, or a guy who loses a game when he does have his best stuff, that's something that has to be paid attention to. It can't be dismissed or ignored.

    Should it be weighed with the same value as ERA or WHIP or K/9, BB/9, etc, etc? Of course not. It has minimal value but it does have some value.

    I most definitely wouldn't call it irrelevant, though. Sorry for the rant...

  12. #12
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    Barry Zito has 15 wins and had an ERA+ of 84
    Cliff Lee had 6 wins and just as many losses as Zito and had an ERA+ of 127 and pitched 30 more innings

  13. #13
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    Barry Zito is a god amongst men

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    How is he supposed to get wins if his team doesn't score any runs?
    Simple, out pitch the opposing pitcher

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by salukisam View Post
    Simple, out pitch the opposing pitcher
    Not sure if...

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