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  1. #1
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    TOPPS to have WAR on the back of cards soon


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    I hate that WAR is the poster child for sabermetrics. It is far from the best advanced stat IMO. Great, but its like everyone thinks that's it, and no other saber stats exists.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    I hate that WAR is the poster child for sabermetrics. It is far from the best advanced stat IMO. Great, but its like everyone thinks that's it, and no other saber stats exists.
    Well at least they are beginning to reference advanced stats.

    I agree though, it should be an introductory process including the stats that make up WAR, otherwise card collectors might be confused.

    Especially if they don't understand the terminology or what it entails.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    I hate that WAR is the poster child for sabermetrics. It is far from the best advanced stat IMO.
    What is the best advanced stat?

    WAR is the best stat for capturing total player value.

    Batting average is the best stat for finding the ratio of hits to at bats

    K% is the best stat for finding how often a player strikes out

  5. #5
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    I honestly like WPA because it is not context neutral like WAR but i understand it has it's own limitations as well.

    That said, rWAR and fWAR for positional players is still dependent on defensive metrics that are obviously more fallible than offensive metrics, which can misconstrue a player's truer value in an individual season.

    I mean great example for me is Juan Lagares, in 369 innings in CF, he has a 12 DRS. Those 40 full games (54 games in total) of great defense have helped him have a .5 fWAR in that time. He's essentially been WAR neutral offensively otherwise and extrapolated over the rest of the season, as him being the everyday CF, will still show his tremendous defensive prowess even if he regresses. Is he really worth that given his offensive neutrality?

    I think WAR in context is important.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-27-2013 at 02:07 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I honestly like WPA because it is not context neutral like WAR but i understand it has it's own limitations as well.
    Sometimes you want context-neutral, sometimes you don't.

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    .
    Last edited by Bryrob58; 03-02-2014 at 04:05 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    What is the best advanced stat?

    WAR is the best stat for capturing total player value.

    Batting average is the best stat for finding the ratio of hits to at bats

    K% is the best stat for finding how often a player strikes out
    I didnt say total value. By best I meant most accurate/helpful. That would be wOBA. I like WAR, but the defensive metrics and such make it a little shaky in a SSS.

    Plus it gives traditional guys the chance to think we use WAR as a be-all end all. Its fine that it is out there, but I wish wOBA was at the forefront.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    I didnt say total value. By best I meant most accurate/helpful. That would be wOBA. I like WAR, but the defensive metrics and such make it a little shaky in a SSS.

    Plus it gives traditional guys the chance to think we use WAR as a be-all end all. Its fine that it is out there, but I wish wOBA was at the forefront.
    The best stat is totally dependent upon what you're trying to measure is the point. wOBA is useless when discussing defense, for example.

    I think WAR is the best stat to include on a baseball card. They aren't going to take off batting average, HR and RBI, OBP and SLG. Adding another offensive stat seems like overkill.

    Having WAR emphasizes total player value over offense only.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    The best stat is totally dependent upon what you're trying to measure is the point. wOBA is useless when discussing defense, for example.

    I think WAR is the best stat to include on a baseball card. They aren't going to take off batting average, HR and RBI, OBP and SLG. Adding another offensive stat seems like overkill.

    Having WAR emphasizes total player value over offense only.
    They could just replace the traditional offensive stats with wOBA, wRC+, and ISO given their accuracy over batting average and slugging .

    At least it would give oWAR better context and WAR in general given offense has more weighted value than defense in determining a player's total WAR.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-27-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    I hate that WAR is the poster child for sabermetrics. It is far from the best advanced stat IMO. Great, but its like everyone thinks that's it, and no other saber stats exists.
    At the very least it's a start.

    MLB Network is even starting to show FIP when comparing pitchers, so compared to where we were in say, 2011, we're moving along.

    I don't think we need to use every stat under the sun, but I want to see us get to where FIP is used alongside ERA and where wOBA is used along the slash line and noone bats an eye.


    baseball

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    The best stat is totally dependent upon what you're trying to measure is the point. wOBA is useless when discussing defense, for example.

    I think WAR is the best stat to include on a baseball card. They aren't going to take off batting average, HR and RBI, OBP and SLG. Adding another offensive stat seems like overkill.

    Having WAR emphasizes total player value over offense only.
    Do you ever not nitpick? Jesus.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgerbluemmm24 View Post
    At the very least it's a start.

    MLB Network is even starting to show FIP when comparing pitchers, so compared to where we were in say, 2011, we're moving along.

    I don't think we need to use every stat under the sun, but I want to see us get to where FIP is used alongside ERA and where wOBA is used along the slash line and noone bats an eye.
    Oh yeah, I agree. I just dislike the idea that a lot of ignorant traditionalists* have that WAR is all that sabermetrics are about, when in reality it is just one of many, and not even the favorite among a long of us.

    During the Trout v. Miggy thing, all the traditionalist writers were talking about how we all just think WAR is the be all end all because that is all they ever saw (or chose to see as to have a BS narrative).

    I like WAR a lot. But I wish more people knew about wRC+, or wOBA, or even OPS+ if that is simpler (although I never use it if wRC+ is available).

    *I did not mean all traditionalist are ignorant. A lot of the traditionalists here know about wRC+ and stuff. I was referring to the especially ignorant ones like Hawk Harrelson and everyone that comments on the MLB facebook page.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Do you ever not nitpick? Jesus.
    By Zeus, can you not tell the difference between being precise in language and nitpicking?

    WAR IS the best stat for determining overall value.

  15. #15
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    You find something to argue with in every post.

    I never said anything about overall value. I was talking about most accurate stat. That isn't WAR. And I already explained that, but you skipped over it so you could argue some more.

    Pick your battles, don't pick out every little thing you find so you can disagree.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


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