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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Though I agree, I think that's a task much easier planned than implemented. For instance, Billingsley has had the exact same problem for years and has yet to overcome.

    If he had been able to overcome at any point earlier in his career, he'd be drawing comparisons with Matt Cain in the talent department. Instead he is now our 3rd, 4th, or even 5th best starter depending on which CBills shows up.
    True, But Greinke has won a Cy Young and was one of the top 3 or 4 pitchers in the game. Can Billingsly say that? Greinke has been on like 3 teams in 3 years, that is 3 different pitching coaches and catchers in his ear.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Blue987 View Post
    Meh. If we shore up the offense some more like they are talking about, we should be just fine over the long haul. I expect Greinke to do better playing in DS in a pitchers park anyway. The SP is much better at the outset of this season compared to last season on paper. When Bills is our 4-5 starter, you know we are doing alright.
    I agree for the most part. However, starting pitching depth through the 5th spot is only great for the regular season. It won't matter who our 5th starter is come playoff time. If the Phillies and Nationals are healthy, we will have reason to be concerned for the matchups beyond Kershaw.

    Beyond Clayton you'll have the following matchups against the Nats and Phills...

    Game 2; Greinke vs Gio Gonzalez/Cliff Lee
    Game 3; Beckett/Bills/Ryu vs Hamels/Zimmerman

    Not one of those possible pitching matchups beyond Kershaw inspires confidence. Additionally, consider the possibility that we go into game 2 down 1-0 in a series. Would you be comfortable then?

    Yes, we could shore up the offense, but it will be our front 3 starters that make the difference.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    I agree for the most part. However, starting pitching depth through the 5th spot is only great for the regular season. It won't matter who our 5th starter is come playoff time. If the Phillies and Nationals are healthy, we will have reason to be concerned for the matchups beyond Kershaw.

    Beyond Clayton you'll have the following matchups against the Nats and Phills...

    Game 2; Greinke vs Gio Gonzalez/Cliff Lee
    Game 3; Beckett/Bills/Ryu vs Hamels/Zimmerman

    Not one of those possible pitching matchups beyond Kershaw inspires confidence. Additionally, consider the possibility that we go into game 2 down 1-0 in a series. Would you be comfortable then?

    Yes, we could shore up the offense, but it will be our front 3 starters that make the difference.
    You wouldn't be confident with Greinke going up against Gio or Lee? I would. I also think Beckett bounces back in a big way, he had a great 2011 season and was good in his time with the Dodgers last year.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibby23 View Post
    True, But Greinke has won a Cy Young and was one of the top 3 or 4 pitchers in the game. Can Billingsly say that? Greinke has been on like 3 teams in 3 years, that is 3 different pitching coaches and catchers in his ear.
    Yes, he's got all the excuses in the world, but we've gotta stop hanging our hats on Greinke's Cy Young season. Everyone who brings this up fails to point out that he followed up a magical 2009 with a 10-14 record and 4.17era in 2010, given the same staff and a better catcher (from Buck to Jason Kendall).

    He's never come close to having a similar season while, in fact, he has shown that his numbers since and prior to 2009 have been consistent, and consistently nearer to his lifetime ERA of 3.77. In short, 2009 was the anomaly, not the rest of his career.

    Yes he went to Milwaukee, where the balls fly, and held his own. But he went to Anaheim, a pitchers park similar to DS, and finished with a 3.83era over there. I'm not saying he isn't or won't be a good pitcher, but if your argument is that he needs to have stability in one place for more than 1.5yrs (his time in Milwaukee) to show his true capabilities, what does that tell us for this season?

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Yes, he's got all the excuses in the world, but we've gotta stop hanging our hats on Greinke's Cy Young season. Everyone who brings this up fails to point out that he followed up a magical 2009 with a 10-14 record and 4.17era in 2010, given the same staff and a better catcher (from Buck to Jason Kendall).

    He's never come close to having a similar season while, in fact, he has shown that his numbers since and prior to 2009 have been consistent, and consistently nearer to his lifetime ERA of 3.77. In short, 2009 was the anomaly, not the rest of his career.

    Yes he went to Milwaukee, where the balls fly, and held his own. But he went to Anaheim, a pitchers park similar to DS, and finished with a 3.83era over there. I'm not saying he isn't or won't be a good pitcher, but if your argument is that he needs to have stability in one place for more than 1.5yrs (his time in Milwaukee) to show his true capabilities, what does that tell us for this season?
    He finished pretty strong. He had a 3.5 era in Anaheim. His last 8 starts he had an ERA of 2.07 and a WHIP under 1.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibby23 View Post
    He finished pretty strong. He had a 3.5 era in Anaheim. His last 8 starts he had an ERA of 2.07 and a WHIP under 1.
    Chris Capuano was 7-1 with a 2.14 as of May 27th...

    Obviously not the same guy, just an example of regression to the mean

  7. #277
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    Yes, but Grenkie is a better pitcher than Capuano is.

    I don't expect another 2009 (that was prime Pedro), but something like:

    3.10 ERA
    200+ inning
    1.2 WHIP

    Would be great.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgerbluemmm24 View Post
    Yes, but Grenkie is a better pitcher than Capuano is.

    I don't expect another 2009 (that was prime Pedro), but something like:

    3.10 ERA
    200+ inning
    1.2 WHIP

    Would be great.
    His manager from 2009 Trey Hillman is also our bench coach this year. He knows what kind of person Greinke is and has some insight on how to handle him. Good piece on dodgers.com

  9. #279
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    Theoretically yes, but lets no forget that Trey Hillman was also his manager in 2010 - one of Greinke's worst statistical seasons.

    Like I said, I hope he proves me wrong, but I will remain a skeptic until he shows it in practice. Theory simply doesn't do much for me.

    I think more realistically he'll have an era of between 3.30-3.40 and eat a ton of innings. While that's still great - guys like Hamels, Lee, Zimmerman, & Gio will finish in the high twos to low threes. And no, that does not give me confidence especially considering the matchups for the following game.

  10. #280
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    What I like about Greinke are the 200+ K's in 3 of th last 4 years. That shows he has nasty stuff. If he gets run support he'll be OK.

    As far as Bills goes last year we finally got to see a nice consistent stretch which had been lacking the last 3 years. It seemed like he would fall apart in the 6th all the time. He'd enter with one or 2 hits and he'd give up home runs. Since he was going Against other teams 1 or 2 pitchers he had a small margin of error. With him sliding to 4 (where I'd slot him) he would have less chance of drawing a #1 when days off affect matchups. That would put our guys against other teams 3-5 pitchers which may mean more run support.

    Of course I'd like to see the Dodgers surprise everyone with a Bills Ethier Gordon + trade to get another solid piece.

  11. #281
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    I'm not worried about his ERA.

    He's going to be pitching in Petco, DS and AT&T. If his other stats (WHIP, K/9, BB/9) stay healthy, the ERA will take care of itself.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgerbluemmm24 View Post
    I'm not worried about his ERA.

    He's going to be pitching in Petco, DS and AT&T. If his other stats (WHIP, K/9, BB/9) stay healthy, the ERA will take care of itself.
    I agree. This was my reasoning for why Kemp should've been the MVP last year. His numbers were right there with Braun but had to play in those parks day in and day out. He also faced much better pitching. The top Cy young vote getters were all out west.

  13. #283
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    After signing Jason Grilli, #Pirates continue to talk about dealing Joel Hanrahan. Among teams with potential match: #Tigers & #Dodgers

  14. #284
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    I think we should be shopping pitchers to the mets for one of their 3rd base prospects Wilmer flores comes to mind now that they have wright locked up for so long
    Go dodgers!!!!
    LAKERS
    Go dolphins!!!!
    Go Flyers!!!!!
    I would give her a ball maybe two!!!!!!!!

  15. #285
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    Magic when asked if they have money for all of this? “I see work trucks on field, we just signed Zack. I think will be ok”. #Dodgers
    3:13pm - 11 Dec 12

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