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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by parman4818 View Post
    Well it looks like Justin Upton is now not going to be traded that the D'Backs got there SS in the 3 way trade tonight.Its just another strike out this off season which is slowly turning into a nightmarish off season.I guess we are hoping for Annibal Sanchez and maybe Nick Swisher and i pray that we re sign Josh Hamilton.Our lineup has gotten lots weaker this off season for sure.
    Sure they have a SS but still no 3B. I say center a deal around Olt and Martin.

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    Sure they have a SS but still no 3B. I say center a deal around Olt and Martin.
    Or just give us Olt and Martin for Dickey...

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Or just give us Olt and Martin for Dickey...
    Jesus you Mets fans are really adamant about trading Dickey for Olt and Martin lol.

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddhulett View Post
    For every free agent you pay 20mil a year for 5-10 years the next super star in the minors ready to break out.

    LAA best players are from the farm not Pujos, Wilson, Hunter and Wells.

    a few 2010-2012 rookies
    Trout LLA
    Pacheco COL
    Cespedes OAK
    Trumbo LLA
    Freeman ATL
    Posey SF
    Castro CHC
    Freese STL
    Jackson DET

    Pitching
    Darvish
    Miley ARI
    Milone OAK
    Parker OAK
    Moore TB
    Diamond MIN
    Nova NYY
    Hellickson TB
    Pineda SEA
    Garcia STL
    Strasburg WSH
    Agaondo- was an allstar!

    My point is that the Rangers don't need to press and make long term commitments that will deplete the farm system or pay guys big money that other guys can do for cheaper.
    First off...why is Freese on this list? How on earth can you compare him to big superstars or high dollar contracts. The guy has a solid batting average (though not even .300), but no real power (as the 35 home runs in 4 years will tell you). Yeah, he got hot on their championship run, but he's 28 and there's nothing to suggest he's a star player or likely to become one.

    Next, a number of players on that list don't belong as well: Trumbo and Nova stick out above anything else. I'm not really feeling like going and checking every other player's stats, but neither of those players, for sure, are stars. So Trumbo can hit a home run, too bad he can't hit much else. .259 batter so far in his career. And Nova has a career ERA of 4.38 (last season was a 5.02), has yet to hit 200 IP or 200 SO, and has a mediocre SO/BB rate at 2.13 for his career so far. I'm sure other players on your list you're vastly overrating as well. the three players I listed above are role players, not stars.

    Next...how can you list Ogando OR Darvish? Did you forget? We bought both of those players. That isn't homegrown talent. That was players we paid for and never had to draft. In fact, Darvish was an over $100M investment. Which completely continues to kill your argument when you use him for your side of things.

    Regardless, that list is full of holes and several of those players are players you could find respectable, cheap replacements for. You can't find many replacements for Greinke or any other ace. And the other guys on your list that you got right (like Strasburg or Trout) were high draft picks who have ALWAYS been projected to be good. It's not like they came out of nowhere. We only have one player that can even be placed in the same stratosphere (Profar) in our farm system.

    Yes, building from your farm is important. But so is supplementing your team with key free agent acquisitions. You talk about spending money like it will somehow hurt our farm. Incorrect. Free agency is great because all it costs is money. Trades are how you deplete the farm system. Using free agency to fill immediate needs allows your best young players to grow properly, instead of forcing them up to the bigs before they're ready. One place the Rangers did this correctly was Beltre. Allowing Olt more time to develop. But the issue is pitching and will always be pitching until we either luck out on a draft pick (but then we have to wait for them in the minors) or pay for a proven ace, which this team seems unwilling to do.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  5. #395
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    I wonder if since the Rangers' offseason salary projections haven't come to fruition, they'll decide to extend Andrus this year instead of allowing him to get to free agency. If they could extend Andrus, perhaps the move to first by Kinsler paves the way for a complete infield realignment where Andrus goes to 2b and Profar to SS for the foreseeable future.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcculloch21 View Post
    I wonder if since the Rangers' offseason salary projections haven't come to fruition, they'll decide to extend Andrus this year instead of allowing him to get to free agency. If they could extend Andrus, perhaps the move to first by Kinsler paves the way for a complete infield realignment where Andrus goes to 2b and Profar to SS for the foreseeable future.
    Well they better ****ing extend him if they weren't willing to trade him for something else. I wouldn't put it past this piece of **** organization not to wait 'til the last minute and try to nickel and dime him into staying though.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    First off...why is Freese on this list? How on earth can you compare him to big superstars or high dollar contracts. The guy has a solid batting average (though not even .300), but no real power (as the 35 home runs in 4 years will tell you). Yeah, he got hot on their championship run, but he's 28 and there's nothing to suggest he's a star player or likely to become one.

    Next, a number of players on that list don't belong as well: Trumbo and Nova stick out above anything else. I'm not really feeling like going and checking every other player's stats, but neither of those players, for sure, are stars. So Trumbo can hit a home run, too bad he can't hit much else. .259 batter so far in his career. And Nova has a career ERA of 4.38 (last season was a 5.02), has yet to hit 200 IP or 200 SO, and has a mediocre SO/BB rate at 2.13 for his career so far. I'm sure other players on your list you're vastly overrating as well. the three players I listed above are role players, not stars.

    Next...how can you list Ogando OR Darvish? Did you forget? We bought both of those players. That isn't homegrown talent. That was players we paid for and never had to draft. In fact, Darvish was an over $100M investment. Which completely continues to kill your argument when you use him for your side of things.

    Regardless, that list is full of holes and several of those players are players you could find respectable, cheap replacements for. You can't find many replacements for Greinke or any other ace. And the other guys on your list that you got right (like Strasburg or Trout) were high draft picks who have ALWAYS been projected to be good. It's not like they came out of nowhere. We only have one player that can even be placed in the same stratosphere (Profar) in our farm system.

    Yes, building from your farm is important. But so is supplementing your team with key free agent acquisitions. You talk about spending money like it will somehow hurt our farm. Incorrect. Free agency is great because all it costs is money. Trades are how you deplete the farm system. Using free agency to fill immediate needs allows your best young players to grow properly, instead of forcing them up to the bigs before they're ready. One place the Rangers did this correctly was Beltre. Allowing Olt more time to develop. But the issue is pitching and will always be pitching until we either luck out on a draft pick (but then we have to wait for them in the minors) or pay for a proven ace, which this team seems unwilling to do.
    Don't get me wrong I would love to sign a big name free agent. It seems everyone is extremely down because we lost out of a few moves so I'm just looking at the bright side of things. The free agent winners never win big on the field.

    Who know's, Profar at 2nd could be our best move! Perez had some good games for us, we had some young guys in the bullpen last year get their feet wet and they looked pretty good.

    I think a true #1 veteran pitcher is what the Ranger want but you have to think of the type of guy your bringing in. Had Greinke been Felix Hernandez or David Price I think we would have signed him but you don't pay that kind of money if the guy's not a leader. The one the Rangers always have going for them is good guys and good leaders in the Club house.
    ____________

  8. #398
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    This offseason is about as enjoyable as thinking about the pending fiscal cliff....

    Quest to watch a game in all 30 baseball stadiums, so far I have seen: Arizona, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Colorado, Detroit, Houston, Kansas City, LA Angels, LA Dodgers, Miami, NY Mets, NY Yankees, Philly, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, St. Louis, San Diego, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Texas, Toronto, Washington

  9. #399
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    This Offseason has been a total bust in my opinion.Our catching is totally horrible are you kidding me Soto and Whiteside.If we dont sign Josh or trade for Upton and Dickey we are going to be lucky to win 85 games and thats with the Houston Lastro's in our division.

  10. #400
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    A rival executive expects the Rangers could obtain Upton from Diamondbacks GM Kevin Towers if they are willing to part with Elvis Andrus
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...o4k82OjYFRK.99
    -MLBTR

    Upton is still a plausible option if JD is open to trading Elvis. I'm thinking Elvis, Olt/Martin, and fillers could get the job done.

  11. #401
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    I think it would be Elvis and a few lower prospects i dont think we would have to add Olt are Martin to Elvis at all.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    -MLBTR

    Upton is still a plausible option if JD is open to trading Elvis. I'm thinking Elvis, Olt/Martin, and fillers could get the job done.
    And then what??? Upton is great, don't get me wrong. But Elvis is pretty good too. Then we lose Olt. What happens if Moreland gets hurt (or sucks), who will play first? What if Profar struggles as a rookie? Who will take the burden off of him?

    This offseason was set up to have Hamilton signed as a FA, and a trade for a ace. Or sign an ace (Grienke) and trade for Upton. Now neither scenario is a possibilty. Any other option comes at the expense of something else.

    We need more relief pitchers, an ace, a catcher, a 1B, and a OF. This team is set to be in 3rd place in out division unless Daniels pulls a rabbit out of a hat.

    Our front office is outsmarting themselves and being too cautious. We have a HUGE TV contract about to kick in. Why the heck are we at a standstill???

    Quest to watch a game in all 30 baseball stadiums, so far I have seen: Arizona, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Colorado, Detroit, Houston, Kansas City, LA Angels, LA Dodgers, Miami, NY Mets, NY Yankees, Philly, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, St. Louis, San Diego, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Texas, Toronto, Washington

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed Rangers View Post
    And then what??? Upton is great, don't get me wrong. But Elvis is pretty good too. Then we lose Olt. What happens if Moreland gets hurt (or sucks), who will play first? What if Profar struggles as a rookie? Who will take the burden off of him?

    This offseason was set up to have Hamilton signed as a FA, and a trade for a ace. Or sign an ace (Grienke) and trade for Upton. Now neither scenario is a possibilty. Any other option comes at the expense of something else.

    We need more relief pitchers, an ace, a catcher, a 1B, and a OF. This team is set to be in 3rd place in out division unless Daniels pulls a rabbit out of a hat.

    Our front office is outsmarting themselves and being too cautious. We have a HUGE TV contract about to kick in. Why the heck are we at a standstill???
    Exactly right.

    Something else people aren't thinking about...Now that Young is gone, who are our utility guys if we deal Olt +?

    There are simply too many needs for this team to fill to be a contender this year and with our newest signing of Eli Whiteside (and Brandon Snyder), it seems as though this team is more than content to go the cheap route to fill holes.

    So why deal a young SS for Upton when we're not going to contend anyway? Great middle infielders are always harder to find than outfielders, so if this team isn't serious about winning, then why not suck it up, get Elvis signed long-term, then look for outfield help some other year?

    I mean...we probably have a good enough team to keep the bandwagon fans coming out to buy Nolan's beef. That's all that matters to this FO anyway right? $$$$$

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed Rangers View Post
    And then what??? Upton is great, don't get me wrong. But Elvis is pretty good too. Then we lose Olt. What happens if Moreland gets hurt (or sucks), who will play first? What if Profar struggles as a rookie? Who will take the burden off of him?

    This offseason was set up to have Hamilton signed as a FA, and a trade for a ace. Or sign an ace (Grienke) and trade for Upton. Now neither scenario is a possibilty. Any other option comes at the expense of something else.

    We need more relief pitchers, an ace, a catcher, a 1B, and a OF. This team is set to be in 3rd place in out division unless Daniels pulls a rabbit out of a hat.

    Our front office is outsmarting themselves and being too cautious. We have a HUGE TV contract about to kick in. Why the heck are we at a standstill???
    What if what if what if. First of all I think Olt is overrated and is Hank Blalock 2.0 with better defense. I'm still a fan of his and hope he turns out better but that's just my opinion. And Profar is probably gonna struggle; he's a rookie and that's what rookies do. As for Moreland getting hurt or struggling, you can say that about literally every player in the Majors. What if Beltre gets hurt or struggles? What if Kinsler gets hurt or struggles? What if Hamilton (if he returns) gets hurt or struggles? There's a risk and reward factor in every transaction whether it's trades or FA signings.

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddhulett View Post
    Don't get me wrong I would love to sign a big name free agent. It seems everyone is extremely down because we lost out of a few moves so I'm just looking at the bright side of things. The free agent winners never win big on the field.

    Who know's, Profar at 2nd could be our best move! Perez had some good games for us, we had some young guys in the bullpen last year get their feet wet and they looked pretty good.

    I think a true #1 veteran pitcher is what the Ranger want but you have to think of the type of guy your bringing in. Had Greinke been Felix Hernandez or David Price I think we would have signed him but you don't pay that kind of money if the guy's not a leader. The one the Rangers always have going for them is good guys and good leaders in the Club house.
    First off, it's not that we lost out on Greinke, it's that we come so close to him and Lee and the Rangers won't throw in, what, an extra $10M? Or an extra year? It's so frustrating. Why even waste the time if you can't or won't outbid other teams? And why does our ownership always have to be cheap when it comes to a proven ace?

    Also, as for the comment that the FA winners never win...that's is overplayed and completely untrue. The problem is, there's generally several big FA transactions each year, so of course not every team can win. But let's take last year...Tigers signed Prince Fielder...made the World Series. Angels signed Pujols and the only reason they didn't make the playoffs is because they played in arguably the toughest division last year. But it's not like they sucked either. Sometimes other teams are just better.

    2010-2011 offseason? Cliff Lee signs with the Phillies. They win over 100 games. They lost to a red hot StL team. It sucks, but that's baseball. They certainly didn't lose though. Also in 2011, Tigers signed Victor Martinez...made the ALCS. Once again, didn't lose. Berkman was also considered a notable signing, he won a championship.

    2009-2010 offseason? Cardinals signed Matt Holliday to a $120M deal. Bet they're regretting that after a championship two years after the signing and an NLCS appearance the year after. And let's not forget the Giants in all of this, they did use homegrown talent, but they signed Cain to a huge deal and will have to do the same to Posey. Which is effectively the same as letting them hit free agency, they just do it when they have no competition, which is smart.

    I could go on, but the point is, signing a big name free agent is not a bad move. It can just be done poorly. Either by signing players too old or not worth it or signing a big name free agent on to a terrible team (see: A-Roid/Rangers). Just because GMs can mess things up doesn't mean every team that hands out a huge contract loses or sucks.

    Next, I'm a HUGE fan of letting our young guys play. Anyone who reads this forum should know that. I WANT Perez pitching every fifth game. I want Profar in this year's lineup. I'm not sure Olt is ready, but who knows? I want Martin to see more time. I want Scheppers as our closer. But we're not the Rays, we have real income, we fill the stands. We should be able to supplement a homegrown team with a stud pitcher somewhere.

    Last, your last paragraph is outright ridiculous. No offense, but seriously, link me one place that says Greinke is a bad leader or clubhouse guy. I've seen a number of reports lately that make him sound like possibly the smartest pitcher in baseball. At the same time...where's all the reports of how much of a leader King Felix or Price are? If you're gonna make a claim like that, you have to back it up with proof. I've never seen anyone question Greinke on his leadership or tell me that Hernandez or Price are better leaders or anything of the sort.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

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