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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by asmarks18 View Post
    Why not both? Money should not be a problem. Forgive me for being "that guy" who thinks we should be the Yankees but we just gave the Rangers 3 million in attendance and they have a huge TV contract that pays them money out their *** and we have 2 billionaire owners. An ace is a necessity. If you can get Hamilton for just 4 years. Take him too. I honestly think getting a super star on a 4 year deal, no matter how much the yearly salary is, is a bargain. Now is not the time to get cheap. We are in win now mode to me. Lets do this.
    Even the Yankees could agree they spent too much on aging players, that's not the complete direction we want to go.

    The reason the rangers have turned in to a good ball club and raised attendance to 3 million.

    They drafted and brought up young talent and at times traded those guys for more pieces.

    Trades like Mark Teixeira that gave us Andrus, Feliz and Harrison- all 3 Allstars!

    Edinson Volquez- Josh Hamilton

    Nelson Cruz, David Murphy and so on.

    Rangers didn't do it by singing the best Free agent. I do agree we can sign someone now with more money like we did with Beltre and Darvish but I would stick to what got us here for the most part.

    I would spend money on Josh and then see what my young guys can give me.
    Last edited by ddhulett; 11-27-2012 at 08:10 PM.
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  2. #257
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    Okay a question two choices we sign Josh Hamilton 4 years 100 million and Zack Grienke 6 years 135 million.Are we sign Annibal Sanchez 5 years 80 million trade Profar,Grimm and another prospect for David Price and then trade Olt,Sardinas and prospect for Justin Upton.

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by parman4818 View Post
    Okay a question two choices we sign Josh Hamilton 4 years 100 million and Zack Grienke 6 years 135 million.Are we sign Annibal Sanchez 5 years 80 million trade Profar,Grimm and another prospect for David Price and then trade Olt,Sardinas and prospect for Justin Upton.
    1. Sanchez isn't happening. They want a TORP

    2. 0% all of those happen, one would be a big offseason

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddhulett View Post
    Even the Yankees could agree they spent too much on aging players, that's not the complete direction we want to go.

    The reason the rangers have turned in to a good ball club and raised attendance to 3 million.

    They drafted and brought up young talent and at times traded those guys for more pieces.

    Trades like Mark Teixeira that gave us Andrus, Feliz and Harrison- all 3 Allstars!

    Edinson Volquez- Josh Hamilton

    Nelson Cruz, David Murphy and so on.

    Rangers didn't do it by singing the best Free agent. I do agree we can sign someone now with more money like we did with Beltre and Darvish but I would stick to what got us here for the most part.

    I would spend money on Josh and then see what my young guys can give me.
    Honestly, our scouting hasn't been that spectacular in the US. Great overseas and south of the border scouting, but lackluster through America. Seriously, let's evaluate JD's moves and you may see there's more luck than skill:

    Hamilton cost us a pitcher who pitched like a Cy Young. Volquez went 17-6 the year we traded him. Pitched 196 innings, 206 SO, ERA of 3.21 and an ERA+ of 137. Injuries limited him after that, but injuries are impossible to project. There's no proof the same injury happens if he stays in Texas. He clearly has talent and that you can prove.

    Tell me, if Volquez doesn't get hurt, and pitches up to his talent like he did the year we traded him, would you still do that deal? We just got lucky the injury issues (which were never present during his time with Texas) did happen and people don't question this trade more.

    Andrus, Feliz and Harrison was trade rape. But how did we manage that trade? Was it because JD is some super GM? No...he had just been raped in a trade that saw us give up Adrian Gonzalez (funny how we've never had a good first baseman since) and Chris Young (who also pitched like a Cy Young right after we traded him, then also hit injuries) for far less talented players.

    No, JD benefited from a desperate Braves front office. Trading Tex was obvious, it would have happened if you were the GM or I was or anyone else in the world was. He had turned down an extension and clearly didn't want to be here. The Braves were desperate and dumped a number of quality young players on us.

    David Murphy? Boston was desperate and traded for Gagne who had a spectacular career and was pitching really well when we traded him. Once again, no one in their right mind could have possibly predicted how bad Gagne tanked when he hit Boston.

    Cruz? This one is one of JD's better moves in terms of talent more than luck. We picked up Lee and Cruz for Mench, Nix and Coco. Then, even when Lee moved on (which was a good move not taking on that contract)...we landed two picks (Beavan and Borbon) from the Astros when they signed him.

    Now, the rest of our roster:
    Kinsler, Young: With the organization before JD was GM.

    Napoli: Arguably the best move made by JD. Everyone will rank the Braves desperation move number one, but I feel at this point that trade gets too much credit without taking things in to account like the needs of the Braves and the value of prospects, which rarely pan out so well in the favor of the team trading for them. This move had huge implications on the division and the World Series.

    Beltre: Free agent. Great pickup, but still a free agent, not because of scouting or trading.

    Feldman: With the organization before JD was GM. But also signed to a bad extension with JD at the helm.

    Yu, Ogando: Finds by our foreign scouting departments.

    Holland: Drafted by JD...but we could have moved him for Roy Halladay. Instead, like Feldman, we signed him to an extension that looks worse by the day.

    Ross, Scheppers: Both have looked good so far. Hope they keep it up. If so, credit JD.

    Profar, Olt, Perez: Remain to be seen. Too early to judge.

    Moreland: Nothing special.

    Honestly, I'm hard pressed to give JD a ton of praise for his amazing home grown tactics. He's given away two pitchers who put up Cy Young numbers immediately after being traded, but both wound up getting injured. Injuries are impossible to project and giving him credit for the Hamilton trade is questionable, since most people agree a great pitcher is worth more than a great hitter.

    The other pitcher, he gave away with a superstar and got raped in the trade. His best moves have been taking advantage of a desperate team in win now mode...much like everyone wants us to be. Everyone says, oh yeah, trade Profar, Perez and more for Price. I say, look at the Tex trade. A desperate team is likely to make a poor decision.

    The next best moves after that have been Cruz and Napoli. Both players who have had a positive impact, but who also can't hit for ****. It's funny, we used to hate Blalock because he was strikeout or homer...but yet people love Napoli and Cruz, because we're winning. When we lose, the flaws are magnified. When we win, we ignore reality.

    As for drafting...no pick JD has made has made any major impact on anything the Rangers have done to date. His best pick, Beavan, is helping Seattle improve. But it's a trade I'd make again, so credit JD there (in my book). His next best picks (Olt and Scheppers) are too young to give any credit to, simply because neither has been an impact player yet to this point in their career.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
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  5. #260
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    i am hearing all this David Price stuff to the rangers but wat about Jon Lester, you would not have to give up alot like you would for Price, maybe something like this, Martin Perez, Leury Garcia and Justin Grimm

  6. #261
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    I say we let Hamilton go, we sign Grienke to his desired contract of 6 years $135mil, we now would have a solid 2-3 SP in Grienke, Darvish and Harrison. Sign B.J. Upton to a 5 year $70mil contract. We sign A.J. Pierzynski to a 2 year $17 Million contract. We trade Olt, Grimm, and maybe a little more, for Michael Morse. Trade Andrus, Perez, and Sardinas for Giancarlo Stanton. Re-sign Koji Uehara, he wont be too expensive. We have to trade Michael Young, he is due $16 million for next year, and I know we could get some RP for him and that will clear up a little bit of our salary. I know its not a full roster and their should be a few other changes but it gives us a STRONG rotation and lineup and saves us some money. Signing Grienke, Upton, and considering our next years salary, we woould be looking at a $150-160 mil salary next year which still keeps us below the Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox and keeps us on par with the Angels. Option B would be trying to trade for Tim Lincecum and then still put together a competing roster, and that wouldnt come cheap.

    Now our lineup would be

    1. Ian Kinsler(R) 2B
    2. B.J. Upton (R) OF
    3. Adrian Beltre(R) 3B
    4. Giancarlo Stanton(R) OF
    5. Michael Morse(R) 1B, OF
    6. Nelson Cruz(R) DH, OF
    7. A.J. Pierzynski C
    8. David Murphy (L)OF
    9. Jurickson Profar(S) SS

    Rotation being
    1. Zach Grienke(R)
    2. Yu Darvish(R)
    3. Matt Harrison(L)
    4. Alexi Ogando(R)
    5. Derek Holland(L)

    Relievers
    1. Joe Nathan(R)
    2. Robbie Ross(L)
    3. Koji Uehara(R)
    4. Michael Kirkman(L)
    5. Tanner Scheppers(R)

    Bench
    1. Craig Gentry(R) OF, DH
    2. Julio Borbon(L) OF
    3. Brandon Snyder(R) OF
    Last edited by Bmapes87; 11-28-2012 at 08:21 AM.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddhulett View Post
    Even the Yankees could agree they spent too much on aging players, that's not the complete direction we want to go.

    The reason the rangers have turned in to a good ball club and raised attendance to 3 million.

    They drafted and brought up young talent and at times traded those guys for more pieces.

    Trades like Mark Teixeira that gave us Andrus, Feliz and Harrison- all 3 Allstars!

    Edinson Volquez- Josh Hamilton

    Nelson Cruz, David Murphy and so on.

    Rangers didn't do it by singing the best Free agent. I do agree we can sign someone now with more money like we did with Beltre and Darvish but I would stick to what got us here for the most part.

    I would spend money on Josh and then see what my young guys can give me.
    The Rangers didn't do it, period. They came up second twice.

    The Yankees didn't do it every year, but they have done it many times.

    And there's a difference at throwing money at every free agent out there. Why can't a team be responsible and give a player a lot of cash? Beltre has worked out pretty well here so far.

    And for every JD lover out there, remember the Adam Eaton for Adrian Gonzalez deal. I agree with Skizzik...let's not overvalue some of the deals he's done, because a lot of them were simply common sense to make.

    Right now we have money and if we're letting Josh walk (which we should) and Naps walk (which we shouldn't), then I want to see quality players brought back in. Two "almosts" don't cut it for me...not when this team is still within the hunt. I don't care about being able to see home plate when I walk in the stadium and as much as I love seeing Nolan's beef everywhere I turn out there in Arlington now, I'd trade it all in for a CHANCE to win. I believe guys like Greinke give us a chance. I can do without the excuses and attitude that guys like Josh brought though.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmapes87 View Post
    I say we let Hamilton go, we sign Grienke to his desired contract of 6 years $135mil, we now would have a solid 2-3 SP in Grienke, Darvish and Harrison. Sign B.J. Upton to a 5 year $70mil contract. We sign A.J. Pierzynski to a 2 year $17 Million contract. We trade Olt, Grimm, and maybe a little more, for Michael Morse. Trade Andrus, Perez, and Sardinas for Giancarlo Stanton. Re-sign Koji Uehara, he wont be too expensive. We have to trade Michael Young, he is due $16 million for next year, and I know we could get some RP for him and that will clear up a little bit of our salary. I know its not a full roster and their should be a few other changes but it gives us a STRONG rotation and lineup and saves us some money. Signing Grienke, Upton, and considering our next years salary, we woould be looking at a $150-160 mil salary next year which still keeps us below the Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox and keeps us on par with the Angels. Option B would be trying to trade for Tim Lincecum and then still put together a competing roster, and that wouldnt come cheap.

    Now our lineup would be

    1. Ian Kinsler(R) 2B
    2. B.J. Upton (R) OF
    3. Adrian Beltre(R) 3B
    4. Giancarlo Stanton(R) OF
    5. Michael Morse(R) 1B, OF
    6. Nelson Cruz(R) DH, OF
    7. A.J. Pierzynski C
    8. David Murphy (L)OF
    9. Jurickson Profar(S) SS

    Rotation being
    1. Zach Grienke(R)
    2. Yu Darvish(R)
    3. Matt Harrison(L)
    4. Alexi Ogando(R)
    5. Derek Holland(L)

    Relievers
    1. Joe Nathan(R)
    2. Robbie Ross(L)
    3. Koji Uehara(R)
    4. Michael Kirkman(L)
    5. Tanner Scheppers(R)

    Bench
    1. Craig Gentry(R) OF, DH
    2. Julio Borbon(L) OF
    3. Brandon Snyder(R) OF
    Cross BJ Upton off your list...5/$75 to the Braves.

    Also, doesn't seem like the Marlins will deal Stanton unless they get power back in return. I don't think even Profar would cut it.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    Right now we have money and if we're letting Josh walk (which we should) and Naps walk (which we shouldn't), then I want to see quality players brought back in. Two "almosts" don't cut it for me...not when this team is still within the hunt. I don't care about being able to see home plate when I walk in the stadium and as much as I love seeing Nolan's beef everywhere I turn out there in Arlington now, I'd trade it all in for a CHANCE to win. I believe guys like Greinke give us a chance. I can do without the excuses and attitude that guys like Josh brought though.
    This is basically what I was trying to tell everyone during the bidding process when so many people on this very board were saying they wanted Nolan, not Cuban. I told them...we KNOW Cuban will spend. These other guys are unknown. But...OMG, Nolan Ryan. Tell me how Jordan's franchise is doing...right.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    This is basically what I was trying to tell everyone during the bidding process when so many people on this very board were saying they wanted Nolan, not Cuban. I told them...we KNOW Cuban will spend. These other guys are unknown. But...OMG, Nolan Ryan. Tell me how Jordan's franchise is doing...right.
    You can't compare Ryan and Jordan like that. They are two different situations and well, Nolan's group has seen us to two straight World Series appearances, although the one against the Giants was suspect. I was ok with Cuban or Nolan buying the team. The only thing I have with Cuban is if his spending would have eventually returned us to the Tom Hicks situation. I know the Mavericks aren't there, but it's just a thought. Either way they both groups would rely on JD and crew to convince them to go spend money. One might have been more easily convinced than the other but we'll never know... maybe.
    Dallas Mavericks 2010-11 NBA CHAMPIONS
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  11. #266
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    Am I the only person on this board who thinks Yu is better than Grienke? Yu will be considered an ace before Grienke will in my book. Unless Yu craps the bed next season and shows that he was only that good because hitters haven't faced him before. I'd also probably trust Yu in more high leverage situations, since he's been there before. Id rather spend that cash on bringing Josh back, even though I think he was pouting on the field becuase he didn't get an extension before the season, and looking to lock Elvis up in the future.
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  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDFan85 View Post
    Am I the only person on this board who thinks Yu is better than Grienke? Yu will be considered an ace before Grienke will in my book. Unless Yu craps the bed next season and shows that he was only that good because hitters haven't faced him before. I'd also probably trust Yu in more high leverage situations, since he's been there before. Id rather spend that cash on bringing Josh back, even though I think he was pouting on the field becuase he didn't get an extension before the season, and looking to lock Elvis up in the future.
    I hate judging players on short samples.

    Hideo Nomo was a great pitcher his first couple years in the US. Then he went to crap. Dice-K got the same hype after his first couple years. Now, both were slightly older than Yu, but I remember Darvish struggling some last season and fans getting onto him for that. Let's see what happens in his second year. I hope you are right, though, and he does turn out to be a consistent ace.

    As for Greinke...as I've said, he's not my first choice among all the aces out there. He barely cracks top 10 for me probably. But...again...how often do you get a chance to sign a #1 type pitcher...even if he's a #1b type pitcher. They're just too hard to come by these days and when you get a real opportunity to get one, I say jump out and grab it.

    As for Josh...I can't stand the guy. I've made it clear that if this team re-signs him, I will walk away from from being a lifelong fan of this team. That said, it's good business if the Rangers could sign him for 3 years max. I just don't see that happening and anything more is going to be risking more health issues, life issues and hurting the chemistry of this team. Even if you downgrade our offense (losing him and signing someone less than him), we still have a capable offense and personally, I'd just rather see our $$$ go to pitching...because as the saying goes, pitching and defense wins championships.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    This is basically what I was trying to tell everyone during the bidding process when so many people on this very board were saying they wanted Nolan, not Cuban. I told them...we KNOW Cuban will spend. These other guys are unknown. But...OMG, Nolan Ryan. Tell me how Jordan's franchise is doing...right.
    I wanted Cuban also...said so at the time.

    Personally I've never been a big fan of Nolan off the field, but then again, Nolan isn't really the money man on the ownership committee either. If it weren't for guys like Bob Simpson, I wouldn't trust Nolan to run this team honestly.

    I still question how frugal these guys really are. Sure, they opened up their wallet for Beltre (a move I questioned at the time), but have hesitated on guys like Cliff Lee. It's not like we didn't all see Josh's free agency looming also, which leads me to wonder why they didn't lock him up, unless they really didn't want him here longterm...or were being cheap.

    This has to be the year they make a real move in my opinion. The window is closing, we have money to spend and there aren't great FA options next year. We'll also lose Nellie and Michael Young's contracts next season. So, if we're going to spend...do it this year, then be frugal next. It just makes sense.
    Last edited by stipe1280; 11-29-2012 at 06:14 PM.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  14. #269
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    it seems like the majority of you all want to add quality starting pitcher to this team, I absolutely agree. I would also love to see the rangers add a solid middle of the order bat to this team. My personal favorite would be to add Carlos Gonzales. It would cost a lot, and that would be depending on if Colorado would even be willing to trade him, but I think that would be the perfect replacement bat for Josh.

    Now for pitching, here is my personal idea. I say we shell out the money to sign Greinke and then see if philly is still willing to deal Cliff Lee (which I would imagine they would be). I would say a package around Mike Olt (whom they reportedly love) and someone like Derek Holland could get it done. Now obviously philly would have to eat a chunk of Lee's contract, but that gives you an absolutely solid rotation of 1. Lee 2. Greinke 3. Darvish 4. Harrison and 5. Ogando/ Colby when he gets healthy.

    Now if the Lee deal gets done it would be tough to give away more prospects to get CarGo, but there are other options. I agree with many of you that it is time to start spending money, we have it, why not spend it? I think its time to make a bold move which could be done with the Lee, or CarGo deal as well. We need to make a splash this offseason and I have complete faith that Nolan and JD will get it done. We have a smart bunch in the front office and I think we can all say we are thankful for that.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    The Rangers didn't do it, period. They came up second twice.

    The Yankees didn't do it every year, but they have done it many times.

    And there's a difference at throwing money at every free agent out there. Why can't a team be responsible and give a player a lot of cash? Beltre has worked out pretty well here so far.

    And for every JD lover out there, remember the Adam Eaton for Adrian Gonzalez deal. I agree with Skizzik...let's not overvalue some of the deals he's done, because a lot of them were simply common sense to make.

    Right now we have money and if we're letting Josh walk (which we should) and Naps walk (which we shouldn't), then I want to see quality players brought back in. Two "almosts" don't cut it for me...not when this team is still within the hunt. I don't care about being able to see home plate when I walk in the stadium and as much as I love seeing Nolan's beef everywhere I turn out there in Arlington now, I'd trade it all in for a CHANCE to win. I believe guys like Greinke give us a chance. I can do without the excuses and attitude that guys like Josh brought though.
    The Yankees did it when they spent reasonably but when you start throwing money like they do your going to crash and burn without away out until contracts fall off.

    Rangers were pretty damn close last year and bottom line they went further than 30 other teams the last two years. A few tweeks and keep building the farm
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