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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    what a bargain!
    2>1...bam!

  2. #197
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    Trade: Elvis for Matt Moore - Rays have a lot of young talented pitching
    Resign: Hamilton
    Mike Olt at 1st Base

    If we go young in other positions that should give us money to free up for Hamilton.

    Pitching
    Darvish
    Moore
    Harrison
    Ogando
    Holland

    Who do we get for the bullpen? I would love to have Koji and Adams back but I don't see it.
    ____________

  3. #198
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    I'm still unclear why everyone wants to trade Elvis so bad? This guy will likely be either the best or second best shortstop in the majors through the entirety of his prime. Yes, I get it, he's gonna get paid soon. But who says that it won't be us to pay him? Every move the Rangers front office has made suggests that we have no intention to trade Elvis.

    Any report I've ever seen linking Elvis has all been speculation based on his coming free agency. I've never seen a single source state the Rangers are shopping Elvis. In fact, I've seen the exact opposite. I've seen several reports where the Rangers refused to offer Elvis. I've seen reports speaking of Kinsler moving to the outfield. I can look at Profar's minor league stats and see where he started at 2B 25 times in 2012...a position he didn't play in 2010 or 2011 in the minors.

    Like, do you guys just hate Elvis? Do you think our owners are that cheap? I mean...really, I just don't get it.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    I'm still unclear why everyone wants to trade Elvis so bad? This guy will likely be either the best or second best shortstop in the majors through the entirety of his prime. Yes, I get it, he's gonna get paid soon. But who says that it won't be us to pay him? Every move the Rangers front office has made suggests that we have no intention to trade Elvis.

    Any report I've ever seen linking Elvis has all been speculation based on his coming free agency. I've never seen a single source state the Rangers are shopping Elvis. In fact, I've seen the exact opposite. I've seen several reports where the Rangers refused to offer Elvis. I've seen reports speaking of Kinsler moving to the outfield. I can look at Profar's minor league stats and see where he started at 2B 25 times in 2012...a position he didn't play in 2010 or 2011 in the minors.

    Like, do you guys just hate Elvis? Do you think our owners are that cheap? I mean...really, I just don't get it.
    In my previous post I said trade Elvis for Matt Moore but only if I could get someone like Matt Moore and put Profar at shortstop.

    I love Elvis and would be more than happy to keep him as a Ranger for life, if we don't resign Josh I could see Elvis getting a long term contract this year.

    Profar and the fact we know Elvis could be traded for something big is the only reason for trade talk. Elvis is a HUGE part of the Rangers success so I doubt anyone hates him...all business.

    Rangers have to play this smart right now to continue success, we can't go out or keep letting our best players get to free agency, it's just too much tied up to one guy.

    Elvis is trade friendly and Kinsler isn't
    ____________

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddhulett:24325059
    In my previous post I said trade Elvis for Matt Moore but only if I could get someone like Matt Moore and put Profar at shortstop.

    I love Elvis and would be more than happy to keep him as a Ranger for life, if we don't resign Josh I could see Elvis getting a long term contract this year.

    Profar and the fact we know Elvis could be traded for something big is the only reason for trade talk. Elvis is a HUGE part of the Rangers success so I doubt anyone hates him...all business.

    Rangers have to play this smart right now to continue success, we can't go out or keep letting our best players get to free agency, it's just too much tied up to one guy.

    Elvis is trade friendly and Kinsler isn't
    Elvis could be the face of our franchise. Why trade him like we're the Marlins? Great teams build around elite players and Elvis is elite. He's already an elite defender and his batting keeps improving.

    Did the Yankees trade Jeter? We're a large market team that's fans got used to Tom Hicks spending like a small market team. We can have Elvis and Profar. We have plenty of unproven players we can trade for elite players. We still have a very good farm system. Trade the unproven, keep the elite talent. That's how you win.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    Elvis could be the face of our franchise. Why trade him like we're the Marlins? Great teams build around elite players and Elvis is elite. He's already an elite defender and his batting keeps improving.

    Did the Yankees trade Jeter? We're a large market team that's fans got used to Tom Hicks spending like a small market team. We can have Elvis and Profar. We have plenty of unproven players we can trade for elite players. We still have a very good farm system. Trade the unproven, keep the elite talent. That's how you win.
    I'm with you on most all of this. I really don't want to see Elvis in another uniform either.

    I think now is the time for a tough decision though. We have 3 middle infielders for 2 spots. Profar might not be ready yet, but I sure don't mind giving him the opportunity, just like we gave Elvis at a young age.

    Can Ian play OF? If he can, I'm all for moving him out there. I'd still prefer a number of corner outfielders to Kinsler, however, so if we can make a trade to acquire one over moving Ian out there, it makes more sense to let one of these middle infielders go. Then you have the economics of it all...

    What would trading Ian net back considering his contract and his "down" year?

    Will Profar really live up to the hype? He's the most profitable chip we have and also the least expensive middle infielder (for now), which would either net the most return in a trade or allow us more financial flexibility to sign other players at other positions.

    Then you have the Andrus situation. He's young. He hasn't maxed his potential. He has all the talent and intangibles...but he's represented by Scott Boras, could cost us an arm and a leg and teams like the Yankees are going to be serious bidders for him when the time comes. Do we risk letting him walk and get nothing in return?

    Whether this year or next, we're going to have a logjam on our hands. I'm hoping we maximize value, look longterm, then deal accordingly to give us a greater chance of winning for years down the road...and I'm sure JD will do just that.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280:24326252
    I'm with you on most all of this. I really don't want to see Elvis in another uniform either.

    I think now is the time for a tough decision though. We have 3 middle infielders for 2 spots. Profar might not be ready yet, but I sure don't mind giving him the opportunity, just like we gave Elvis at a young age.

    Can Ian play OF? If he can, I'm all for moving him out there. I'd still prefer a number of corner outfielders to Kinsler, however, so if we can make a trade to acquire one over moving Ian out there, it makes more sense to let one of these middle infielders go. Then you have the economics of it all...

    What would trading Ian net back considering his contract and his "down" year?

    Will Profar really live up to the hype? He's the most profitable chip we have and also the least expensive middle infielder (for now), which would either net the most return in a trade or allow us more financial flexibility to sign other players at other positions.

    Then you have the Andrus situation. He's young. He hasn't maxed his potential. He has all the talent and intangibles...but he's represented by Scott Boras, could cost us an arm and a leg and teams like the Yankees are going to be serious bidders for him when the time comes. Do we risk letting him walk and get nothing in return?

    Whether this year or next, we're going to have a logjam on our hands. I'm hoping we maximize value, look longterm, then deal accordingly to give us a greater chance of winning for years down the road...and I'm sure JD will do just that.
    Your post is the kind of feeling that I get from most fans (not in a negative way). That basically, we aren't contenders for big name free agents. That's what it feels like with how people talk about Elvis and the Yankees. If we don't spend that money on Elvis, then who?

    We're about to let Josh walk for nothing. I don't believe the answer is trading Elvis and risk taking a step back and losing the chemistry. Trading Elvis isn't just about his play. Everyone loves this guy basically. There's very few players you could convince me are worth dumping Elvis for between his age, talent and chemistry.

    But it all leads back to the point...if we're just letting Josh walk and before that Lee and now Elvis...when are we ever gonna keep elite talent? Beltre was a spectacular addition, but we can't just always sign players past their prime and expect it to be worth it. Very few contracts to players Beltre's age are worth it.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  8. #203
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    I would rather trade Ian than Elvis, but more than all, I want to resign Elvis and move Ian to LF/DH

  9. #204
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    It makes all the sense in the world to me to trade Kinsler to a team in need of a 2B for one of their corner OF....Kinsler for Gordon makes the most sense to me, Royals improve greatly at 2B and we get an established LF instead of risking moving Kinsler to the OF which just does not make sense at all.....we still need an ace though, now that Price has officially won the CY award, his arb contract is going to be huge and with him still under control for a few more years his value may never be higher. So even though the Rays are saying he is not on the block, I think we could offer some kind of package for them to pull the trigger. He is the exact pitcher we need, young, under control and a legit ace.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger82685:24328702
    It makes all the sense in the world to me to trade Kinsler to a team in need of a 2B for one of their corner OF....Kinsler for Gordon makes the most sense to me, Royals improve greatly at 2B and we get an established LF instead of risking moving Kinsler to the OF which just does not make sense at all.....we still need an ace though, now that Price has officially won the CY award, his arb contract is going to be huge and with him still under control for a few more years his value may never be higher. So even though the Rays are saying he is not on the block, I think we could offer some kind of package for them to pull the trigger. He is the exact pitcher we need, young, under control and a legit ace.
    Yes, we could get Price. But every report says they want Profar included. Which means it will never happen.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    Your post is the kind of feeling that I get from most fans (not in a negative way). That basically, we aren't contenders for big name free agents. That's what it feels like with how people talk about Elvis and the Yankees. If we don't spend that money on Elvis, then who?

    We're about to let Josh walk for nothing. I don't believe the answer is trading Elvis and risk taking a step back and losing the chemistry. Trading Elvis isn't just about his play. Everyone loves this guy basically. There's very few players you could convince me are worth dumping Elvis for between his age, talent and chemistry.

    But it all leads back to the point...if we're just letting Josh walk and before that Lee and now Elvis...when are we ever gonna keep elite talent? Beltre was a spectacular addition, but we can't just always sign players past their prime and expect it to be worth it. Very few contracts to players Beltre's age are worth it.
    Truth is, I don't trust Nolan in free agency.

    I understand letting Josh walk...it needs to happen. I will never understand why we couldn't have offered Cliff Lee (the only ace we've had since an aged Nolan Ryan) the extra year needed to keep him here. Now, while I like prudence, at some point Nolan & Co. are going to have to end the stubbornness and realize that in today's age, teams are having to add a couple bad years onto contracts just to acquire top notch free agents (i.e. Pujols, Fielder, etc.). There aren't going to be top of the line, young guys like Yu Darvish who will take a 5 year deal, just to get an opportunity to play in MLB, out there very often.

    So, until I hear Nolan say: "You know what, we're going to sign ELITE PLAYER for seven years, knowing that even though ELITE PLAYER'S last two seasons won't be his best, that his first five years are going to put us into a great position to win", I'm always going to doubt this team.

    The other thing is: How many premier free agents are coming out on the market these days? If you're young and a stud, chances are your team is stepping up to offer you an extension (Hamels, Cain, Votto, etc.) before you ever hit the market. Look at this years crop...

    Zack Greinke is the best available. Remember us all discussing him a couple years ago. Most thought he was a good player, but not many thought he was a can't miss ace. Even now, if we sign him, are you for sure that he'll settle in here in Arlington?

    Josh is probably #2 on that list...and chances are we're letting him walk (for numerous reasons).

    Point is, there's not much after these two guys and you've got all the usual suspects that will be in on said top tier guys. So what does that leave us with? A trade?

    Now I agree with Y2K and others...I'd rather deal Ian if we're dealing any of the 3 infielders in question. I disagree with simply moving him to the outfield IF a better outfielder can be had in a trade though. There are too many questions with Kinsler moving...can he play the position, after his "down" year what are you getting next year from him, etc.?

    To sum this up (this got rather long, really quick)...

    Will Nolan shell out the money to keep Andrus here when the time comes...even when the Yankees, in need of Jeter's replacement, offer him more years/money than he might be worth?

    Will Andrus justify us having to overspend, especially when we will have Profar, a top prospect (now) and future star as cheap and already on the team?

    Personally I want to keep the guy. I just don't trust the Rangers in free agency. Nolan is too stubborn (which isn't always a bad thing) at times, so to stay competitive, I really think this team is going to have to get active in a couple deals. Being that we're loaded at middle infielder, that is our best asset in a deal.

    So, if Nolan isn't going to pull the trigger and give a top tier guy and the years and money that come with free agency...I think the only way he'll be able to achieve getting a top tier guy here is via trade. I don't expect the Greinke's/others of this world to sign here for cheaper/fewer years just because we're a good team. There are plenty of other good teams out there that will be willing to sign him also...AND give him the money/years he's going to want.
    Last edited by stipe1280; 11-15-2012 at 01:15 AM.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  12. #207
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    To side track a little...Dickey won the NL Cy Young. Never forget...he learned the knuckleball in our minor league system. He even pitched with it in at least one major league game for the Rangers.

    Sad that we rushed that. Imagine this team with Dickey on it now. (Don't get me wrong, I hated seeing him pitch in his earlier seasons with us).
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    Yes, we could get Price. But every report says they want Profar included. Which means it will never happen.
    There are only a handful of top pitchers I would offer Profar for and Price is one of them. If Profar is the make or break piece for the trade to happen or not then im sorry, but he needs to be included in order to make the trade happen. I cant think of another young controllable legit ace that will be on the market for a while, we have the assets now, we are in win now mode, and we have needed a legit ace for way too long. Who cares if Profar becomes a star in tampa, making that trade is very justified and Profar is still unproven while Price is an AL East proven ace which is huge. We would need to lockup Andrus and I really dont think he is going to cost as much as you guys are thinking, yes he will cost a lot, but I just dont see him getting $20 mil/year....I can see like 10 years, $150 mil with it being backloaded, while thats still a lot of money, proven All Star SS dont come along very often and we wouldn't have a replacement for him for a while if we did indeed trade Profar.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    To side track a little...Dickey won the NL Cy Young. Never forget...he learned the knuckleball in our minor league system. He even pitched with it in at least one major league game for the Rangers.

    Sad that we rushed that. Imagine this team with Dickey on it now. (Don't get me wrong, I hated seeing him pitch in his earlier seasons with us).
    I remember being at his first start when he gave up 6 home runs. I never would've thought he'd turn into what he has. Honestly, I'm happy for the guy winning this award.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280:24333789
    I remember being at his first start when he gave up 6 home runs. I never would've thought he'd turn into what he has. Honestly, I'm happy for the guy winning this award.
    Yeah, I was at that start too. That being said, I just hate knee jerk reactions. If you're gonna waste the time to develop a player, don't do it halfway then let some other team reap the rewards. One start, no matter how bad, is a downright terrible sample size. But, I mean, it's not like he was a stud either at the time. I just wonder what could have happened if we gave him a few more chances.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

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