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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger82685 View Post
    I really think we have screwed ourselves by not signing Greinke....our rotation has been our biggest weakness for years and it is an obvious hole that we needed to fill and there is probably no one we can trade for to upgrade the rotation. I am hoping something can be worked out to get Upton and I would also like Skaggs, but it looks like the Dbacks wont budge from Andrus or Profar so I doubt anything gets done....I have no idea what the game plan is now, there is just no clear upgrades to be had now unless there are some behind the scenes deal being talked about that we dont know. I still dont want to see us spend a **** load of money on Hamilton, would much rather let our young guys play since we missed out on 2 potential upgrades to our rotation.....I am just lost as to the plan the Rangers had going into the offseason.
    Our pitching, despite many injuries last season, was not really this teams main issue. It was the lack of run production for extended periods of time. Darvish, Harrison, Holland, Ogando is a solid 4. Sure someone slotted infront of Darvish would be nice, but I think that rotation(especially if Colby comes back healthy) can make a deep postseason run.

    That being said, if they lose out on Hamilton after losing Napoli as well, a move or 2 will need to be made to keep this offense competitive.

    And while we talk about offense, I think Kinsler at 1B is a terrible idea.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young2Kinsler View Post
    While I would have liked to see Greinke signed, I'm so glad this front office has more vision and patience than most fans.

    That Shields trade is AWFUL for the Royals, so glad JD is better than that.

    Watching things happen is hard, but don't be the type of fan who wants to see something done just for the hell of it, rather than making moves that make sense.

    You really should have a little more faith in a front office, scouting department, and franchise who have put together such a great product throughout their system.
    Patience is one thing, but sitting around watching opportunities pass you by is another.

    Sorry, but the window doesn't stay open long and if you're not going to take your shots, then this organization needs to admit it, lower ticket prices and leave The Ballpark as a destination for the occasional family outing.

    If not this year, then when?

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by I<3ourProspects View Post
    we want olt nad leony's martin send them over and u guys get an ace in dickey, GET HER DONE!!!!
    Hell no.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    Hell no.
    Amen. Mike Olt is too much on his own.

    Might as well pony up on "plan f" and sign Anibal Sanchez already.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  5. #365
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    Think something off-the-wall will happen. Lots of offseason deals are put together under the radar and therefore no speculation about them gets to the media.

    Maybe we should focus on a back-end starter. Our 1-4 isn't too shabby, and Lewis will be back maybe by the trade deadline. CIN is looking for a CF'er and they were willing to include Mike Leake in a package for Dexter Fowler. If we re-sign Hammy to play CF, maybe that makes L. Martin expendable with Hammy and Gentry around. Martin + prospects to CIN for Leake? You could say we have M. Perez for the 5th spot but he might need more time at RR and Leake is ready to go right now. CIN is also apparently willing to deal Drew Stubbs.

    Please no to Dickey. Tim Wakefield failed to put up a FIP lower than 4.07 after the age of 35. If after '02 he did manage to put together a season with a solid W-L it was because of run support rather than his own performance. Just worried Dickey's novelty act will end in the AL. Maybe Niese is on our radar instead. I imagine the Mets might get more for Niese than Dickey. I'd give up more for Niese that's for sure.

  6. #366
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    you guys have already offered us Olt for dickey, dont worry once u lose out on sanchez we will get martin too, watch and see lol

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by I<3ourProspects View Post
    you guys have already offered us Olt for dickey, dont worry once u lose out on sanchez we will get martin too, watch and see lol
    Please go away.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    Patience is one thing, but sitting around watching opportunities pass you by is another.

    Sorry, but the window doesn't stay open long and if you're not going to take your shots, then this organization needs to admit it, lower ticket prices and leave The Ballpark as a destination for the occasional family outing.

    If not this year, then when?
    Exactly. I have no problem with patience. But this ownership group continues to prove winning is not their number one priority. Yay, so we'll still be good in 10 years. How many championships will we have in that time? I'm sorry, but that's what matters.

    I've stuck with this team through thick and thin. Sat in 100 degree heat day games (and night) during 90 loss seasons. And we had a chance to have a winner (Cuban) take over. Instead, we got this other group that promised the moon and gives us a glow in the dark rock.

    Once again, Beltre is nice...but outside of that, this team hasn't spent money and has absolutely failed to land a proven ace. I love Darvish, I'm one of his biggest supporters. I had a Darvish jersey being made before his first start (though it wasn't ready until after). I wear it once a week generally.

    But despite that, we have had chances for Lee (not only once, most people believed any team that would have claimed him on waivers last year would have likely been allowed to have him without a trade). And now Greinke. People think he's getting overpaid, just wait. Every year people say that and every year the next year's contracts get more absurd (except in a few rare occasions, like ARoid). And we haven't landed one in a trade.

    Even if what we lose is balanced with other gains...we're just standing pat at best. And that's still a big if since Hamilton is no guarantee. Standing pat is a terrible move when other contenders continue to get better. Like the A's or Tigers. If we lose Hamilton, I consider our window closed. Even with him, I don't think we're a top two team in the AL.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young2Kinsler View Post
    Our pitching, despite many injuries last season, was not really this teams main issue. It was the lack of run production for extended periods of time. Darvish, Harrison, Holland, Ogando is a solid 4. Sure someone slotted infront of Darvish would be nice, but I think that rotation(especially if Colby comes back healthy) can make a deep postseason run.

    That being said, if they lose out on Hamilton after losing Napoli as well, a move or 2 will need to be made to keep this offense competitive.

    And while we talk about offense, I think Kinsler at 1B is a terrible idea.
    I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment. While our staff was definitely hurt by the absences of Lewis and Feliz the same argument can be made about pitching eliminating the need for more runs.

    Texas does not have a true #1 as we speak. That has been their prevailing problem since inception frankly whereas offense has not. The fact of the matter is our pitching staff is filled with a couple #2's and several #3's-IF they stay healthy. The bullpen was horrible down the stretch and so was our pitching except for the rookie in terms of consistency.

    Greinke was not a huge loss IMO because he was and probably still is a head case. Greinke + Hamilton = FAIL.

    Not shoring up our staff across the board on the other hand is a huge problem though. Wins are great throughout the year to August. However your team begins to show what it is made of when the stakes get high. Texas faded and eventually failed when it mattered most. In fact, they melted down then choked- Period. Winners don't complain about exhaustion, injuries, rigors of previous years deep runs or other half baked excuses. Winners get it done. Texas unfortunately choked in two consecutive World Series and three post seasons as far as I'm concerned.

    Pitching wins the post season and we don't have it. Texas demeanor is beginning to concern me here. While I am a football guy I've always loved the Rangers. Went to my first game at 6 and watched Frank Howard send one to my Dad and I in left field.

    If the Rangers want success they better put their big boy pants on and get it done. Sitting back, watching then whining doesn't cut it in the Big League.

    Edit: deep playoff runs mean nothing if you can't close the deal. Texas hasn't closed the deal because it has choked every time. While pitching was not necessarily the sole issue in '11, it didn't get them over the top. Texas needs an ace and it needs to strengthen their bull pen. If they don't and then lose Hamilton Texas will fade again down the stretch- if not sooner
    Last edited by waveone; 12-10-2012 at 12:55 PM.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by I<3ourProspects View Post
    you guys have already offered us Olt for dickey, dont worry once u lose out on sanchez we will get martin too, watch and see lol
    so what position of the mets front office do you have?
    Dez freakin Bryant!

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    That's not a very fair comparison, you intentionally skew your data points to favor Hamilton. I could do similar for Upton. First off, you can throw out RBIs. In a perfectly even scenario, Hamilton would still beat Upton in RBIs, but you do have to factor in the team around the player as well. One of these players plays in a top two or three offense (1st in runs scored, 3rd in average, 4th in OBP and 5th in HR) depending how you judge offense.

    Secondly, not everyone in a home run hitter. I know they impress the casual fan and that obviously if someone walked up and hit a home run every at bat, they'd be pretty impressive and score more runs than someone who did the same thing with singles. But honestly, Upton doesn't have to bash a million home runs to be good.

    The areas where Upton beats Hamilton?
    Try consistency for one. You linked their best months, I'll link their worst (I took out Hamilton's horrendous October, only because it was a meager three games):
    Hamilton - .177/.253/.354, 4 HR, 8 BB, 21 SO, 10 R, 0 SB.
    Upton - .242/.354/.379, 2 HR, 10 BB, 19 SO, 16 R, 3 SB.

    In batting average, Hamilton's high month is a staggering .218 points in difference. When Hamilton is good, he's great, when he's bad though...he can cost his team games. What were our worst two months? Well, when Hamilton stunk in October, guess what? 0-3. And when he sucked for a full month in July? 9-14. The only month we couldn't manage at least a .500 record.

    Next, Upton has the superior OBP, he gets on more. .355 to .354...it's not a huge difference, but consider this...think of the number of intentional walks Hamilton gets. Then consider the other stats you linked, including a month where Hamilton damn near batted .400. And yet, he loses to the guy who's best month was .060 points worse in batting average? On top of taking slightly more walks, Upton doesn't strike out as much. 162 SO for Hamilton to 121 for Upton.

    You might say, well Hamilton bats more being the higher scoring offense... wrong, because Hamilton misses more games. Hamilton had 562 AB to Upton's 554. (Crazy thing I found here...not only are their ABs exactly 8 different, Hamilton has exactly 8 PAs on Upton, 636-628). And Upton has significantly more games played over Hamilton the last four years:
    Year - Upton - Hamilton
    2012 -150 - 148
    2011 - 159 - 121
    2010 - 133 - 133
    2009 - 138 - 89
    Total - 580 - 491

    Oh and finally, there's a huge age difference...Hamilton turns 32 in May, Upton turns 26 (entering his prime) in August. I'm not saying Upton will walk in and replace Josh Hamilton. But he has notably more plate discipline, is far more consistent, plays more games, is younger and is entering his prime, unlike Hamilton who is exiting his.
    Saying all of that- Hamilton still more impact full player and strikes so much more fear to opposing pitchers that he changes the game entirely. His intentional walkers are because he's more feared that Upton.

    Rangers can help themselves by getting more out of the young guys and especially catcher and first baseman offense wise, Hamilton had to carrier them last year.

    Right now I'm not against Upton and Hamilton both playing for us and hoping the pitching can hold up until we can find a trade for a Price or Hernandez.
    ____________

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    Exactly. I have no problem with patience. But this ownership group continues to prove winning is not their number one priority. Yay, so we'll still be good in 10 years. How many championships will we have in that time? I'm sorry, but that's what matters.

    I've stuck with this team through thick and thin. Sat in 100 degree heat day games (and night) during 90 loss seasons. And we had a chance to have a winner (Cuban) take over. Instead, we got this other group that promised the moon and gives us a glow in the dark rock.

    Once again, Beltre is nice...but outside of that, this team hasn't spent money and has absolutely failed to land a proven ace. I love Darvish, I'm one of his biggest supporters. I had a Darvish jersey being made before his first start (though it wasn't ready until after). I wear it once a week generally.

    But despite that, we have had chances for Lee (not only once, most people believed any team that would have claimed him on waivers last year would have likely been allowed to have him without a trade). And now Greinke. People think he's getting overpaid, just wait. Every year people say that and every year the next year's contracts get more absurd (except in a few rare occasions, like ARoid). And we haven't landed one in a trade.

    Even if what we lose is balanced with other gains...we're just standing pat at best. And that's still a big if since Hamilton is no guarantee. Standing pat is a terrible move when other contenders continue to get better. Like the A's or Tigers. If we lose Hamilton, I consider our window closed. Even with him, I don't think we're a top two team in the AL.
    Amen.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  13. #373
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    I think it's time to they get off their *****! Sign Hamilton, trade Elvis for Upton, Olt for Dickey, and throw some cash at Swisher.

    Opening day lineup:

    1. Kinsler 2nd
    2. Upton CF
    3. Hamilton LF
    4. Beltre 3RD
    5. Cruz DH
    6. Murphy RF
    7. Swisher 1st
    8. Profar SS
    9. ??????? C

    Darvish, Dickey, Harrison, Ogundo, Holland

    I would be pretty happy with that lineup! Thoughts?

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogeyman View Post
    I think it's time to they get off their *****! Sign Hamilton, trade Elvis for Upton, Olt for Dickey, and throw some cash at Swisher.

    Opening day lineup:

    1. Kinsler 2nd
    2. Upton CF
    3. Hamilton LF
    4. Beltre 3RD
    5. Cruz DH
    6. Murphy RF
    7. Swisher 1st
    8. Profar SS
    9. ??????? C

    Darvish, Dickey, Harrison, Ogundo, Holland

    I would be pretty happy with that lineup! Thoughts?
    Just a couple things...

    1) Justin Upton doesn't play CF.
    2) The Mets want more than Olt for Dickey

    I'm guessing Hamilton will get at least $22m/yr. at this stage. Swisher will probably be in the $12-13m/yr. range. Upton will cost an average of $12.8m over the next 3 years. We'd also have to extend Dickey, so you're looking at nearly $62m/yr. being added to your payroll with just those 4 players for the next 2-3 years, which would take our budget to around $135m and put us $10-15m over budget.

    Short version...all of that won't happen.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveone View Post
    Greinke was not a huge loss IMO because he was and probably still is a head case. Greinke + Hamilton = FAIL.
    I'm sorry, but this is my rant of the day in the Rangers forum...people need to stop claiming Greinke is a headcase. Did he suffer from depression? Yes. But since his Cy Young year, when did that EVER been proven to cause his performance to suffer? He won two postseason games and while his ERA wasn't the best, he did play a really hot StL twice, which no one contained that year. Then, down the stretch run in the AL West, competing for a playoff spot in a HUGE market...he only posted a 3.53 ERA. Yeah, terrible. Clearly a head case. Give me a break.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

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