Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 23 of 48 FirstFirst ... 13212223242533 ... LastLast
Results 331 to 345 of 712
  1. #331
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    6,357
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by ddhulett View Post
    I keep seeing Rangers name pop up with Justin Upton and in that case I don't see us keeping Hamilton.

    I would rather Hamilton because the drop off from Hamilton to the next guy is huge.

    Upton #'s .280 HR 17 RBI 67 Runs 107 SB 18
    Hamilton .285 HR 43 RBI 128 Runs 103 SB 7

    Best month
    Upton
    June 87 AB 15R 29H 2HR 14RBI 21K .333avg

    Hamilton
    April 86 AB 20R 34H 9HR 25RBI 17K .395

    Hamilton's worst month he produced 10R 4HR and 11RBI almost what Upton did his best.
    That's not a very fair comparison, you intentionally skew your data points to favor Hamilton. I could do similar for Upton. First off, you can throw out RBIs. In a perfectly even scenario, Hamilton would still beat Upton in RBIs, but you do have to factor in the team around the player as well. One of these players plays in a top two or three offense (1st in runs scored, 3rd in average, 4th in OBP and 5th in HR) depending how you judge offense.

    Secondly, not everyone in a home run hitter. I know they impress the casual fan and that obviously if someone walked up and hit a home run every at bat, they'd be pretty impressive and score more runs than someone who did the same thing with singles. But honestly, Upton doesn't have to bash a million home runs to be good.

    The areas where Upton beats Hamilton?
    Try consistency for one. You linked their best months, I'll link their worst (I took out Hamilton's horrendous October, only because it was a meager three games):
    Hamilton - .177/.253/.354, 4 HR, 8 BB, 21 SO, 10 R, 0 SB.
    Upton - .242/.354/.379, 2 HR, 10 BB, 19 SO, 16 R, 3 SB.

    In batting average, Hamilton's high month is a staggering .218 points in difference. When Hamilton is good, he's great, when he's bad though...he can cost his team games. What were our worst two months? Well, when Hamilton stunk in October, guess what? 0-3. And when he sucked for a full month in July? 9-14. The only month we couldn't manage at least a .500 record.

    Next, Upton has the superior OBP, he gets on more. .355 to .354...it's not a huge difference, but consider this...think of the number of intentional walks Hamilton gets. Then consider the other stats you linked, including a month where Hamilton damn near batted .400. And yet, he loses to the guy who's best month was .060 points worse in batting average? On top of taking slightly more walks, Upton doesn't strike out as much. 162 SO for Hamilton to 121 for Upton.

    You might say, well Hamilton bats more being the higher scoring offense... wrong, because Hamilton misses more games. Hamilton had 562 AB to Upton's 554. (Crazy thing I found here...not only are their ABs exactly 8 different, Hamilton has exactly 8 PAs on Upton, 636-628). And Upton has significantly more games played over Hamilton the last four years:
    Year - Upton - Hamilton
    2012 -150 - 148
    2011 - 159 - 121
    2010 - 133 - 133
    2009 - 138 - 89
    Total - 580 - 491

    Oh and finally, there's a huge age difference...Hamilton turns 32 in May, Upton turns 26 (entering his prime) in August. I'm not saying Upton will walk in and replace Josh Hamilton. But he has notably more plate discipline, is far more consistent, plays more games, is younger and is entering his prime, unlike Hamilton who is exiting his.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  2. #332
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    802
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    Oh and finally, there's a huge age difference...Hamilton turns 32 in May, Upton turns 26 (entering his prime) in August. I'm not saying Upton will walk in and replace Josh Hamilton. But he has notably more plate discipline, is far more consistent, plays more games, is younger and is entering his prime, unlike Hamilton who is exiting his.

    too bad they are insisting on andrus or profar in return.

  3. #333
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,627
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    That's not a very fair comparison, you intentionally skew your data points to favor Hamilton. I could do similar for Upton. First off, you can throw out RBIs. In a perfectly even scenario, Hamilton would still beat Upton in RBIs, but you do have to factor in the team around the player as well. One of these players plays in a top two or three offense (1st in runs scored, 3rd in average, 4th in OBP and 5th in HR) depending how you judge offense.

    Secondly, not everyone in a home run hitter. I know they impress the casual fan and that obviously if someone walked up and hit a home run every at bat, they'd be pretty impressive and score more runs than someone who did the same thing with singles. But honestly, Upton doesn't have to bash a million home runs to be good.

    The areas where Upton beats Hamilton?
    Try consistency for one. You linked their best months, I'll link their worst (I took out Hamilton's horrendous October, only because it was a meager three games):
    Hamilton - .177/.253/.354, 4 HR, 8 BB, 21 SO, 10 R, 0 SB.
    Upton - .242/.354/.379, 2 HR, 10 BB, 19 SO, 16 R, 3 SB.

    In batting average, Hamilton's high month is a staggering .218 points in difference. When Hamilton is good, he's great, when he's bad though...he can cost his team games. What were our worst two months? Well, when Hamilton stunk in October, guess what? 0-3. And when he sucked for a full month in July? 9-14. The only month we couldn't manage at least a .500 record.

    Next, Upton has the superior OBP, he gets on more. .355 to .354...it's not a huge difference, but consider this...think of the number of intentional walks Hamilton gets. Then consider the other stats you linked, including a month where Hamilton damn near batted .400. And yet, he loses to the guy who's best month was .060 points worse in batting average? On top of taking slightly more walks, Upton doesn't strike out as much. 162 SO for Hamilton to 121 for Upton.

    You might say, well Hamilton bats more being the higher scoring offense... wrong, because Hamilton misses more games. Hamilton had 562 AB to Upton's 554. (Crazy thing I found here...not only are their ABs exactly 8 different, Hamilton has exactly 8 PAs on Upton, 636-628). And Upton has significantly more games played over Hamilton the last four years:
    Year - Upton - Hamilton
    2012 -150 - 148
    2011 - 159 - 121
    2010 - 133 - 133
    2009 - 138 - 89
    Total - 580 - 491

    Oh and finally, there's a huge age difference...Hamilton turns 32 in May, Upton turns 26 (entering his prime) in August. I'm not saying Upton will walk in and replace Josh Hamilton. But he has notably more plate discipline, is far more consistent, plays more games, is younger and is entering his prime, unlike Hamilton who is exiting his.
    Thank you.

    I was just getting ready to reply to his comparison when I saw yours. It's not fair to take Upton's worst year and use that as his standard.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  4. #334
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,627
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Corked Bat View Post
    too bad they are insisting on andrus or profar in return.
    Hopefully they can work out a deal where Cleveland is involved and gives Arizona Asdrubal Cabrera, then all parties could be happy.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  5. #335
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    6,357
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    Hopefully they can work out a deal where Cleveland is involved and gives Arizona Asdrubal Cabrera, then all parties could be happy.
    This. There are other solutions. Arizona just wants a SS, it doesn't HAVE to be a Rangers shortstop. We have prospects that we can give up that mean less to this organization that either Elvis or Profar.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  6. #336
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    344
    vCash
    1500
    Today's stab in the dark: (what I WANT, not what we'll do)

    Sign Grienke 7/175
    Sign Hamilton 4/93
    Sign Swisher 2/26

    Trade Young for cash and top A-ball prospect
    Trade Cruz for Dickey
    Trade Perez, Grimm, L. Martin for Mauer and Aaron Hicks
    Trade L. Garcia, Ross for Upton (through whatever team combo necessary)
    Trade Olt, Ogando, Holland, Beltre, and Gallo for David Price

    RF/DH/2B-Kinsler
    SS/DH-Andrus
    LF/DH-Hamilton
    3B-Beltre
    CF-Upton
    C/DH-Mauer
    1B/RF-Swisher
    OF/DH-Gentry
    2B/DH/SS-Profar

    Price
    Grienke
    Darvish
    Dickey
    Harrison



    Thank you, thank you... just hand me the rings now.


  7. #337
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,083
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Corked Bat View Post
    yesterday there were rumors that texas was working on a way to put together an outfield that featured both hamilton and upton.
    ray:
    Dallas Mavericks 2010-11 NBA CHAMPIONS
    Dirk Nowitzki 2010-2011 Finals MVP

    Texas Rangers 2010, 2011 AL West & AL Champions

  8. #338
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    160
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcculloch21 View Post
    Today's stab in the dark: (what I WANT, not what we'll do)

    Sign Grienke 7/175
    Sign Hamilton 4/93
    Sign Swisher 2/26

    Trade Young for cash and top A-ball prospect
    Trade Cruz for Dickey
    Trade Perez, Grimm, L. Martin for Mauer and Aaron Hicks
    Trade L. Garcia, Ross for Upton (through whatever team combo necessary)
    Trade Olt, Ogando, Holland, Beltre, and Gallo for David Price

    RF/DH/2B-Kinsler
    SS/DH-Andrus
    LF/DH-Hamilton
    3B-Beltre
    CF-Upton
    C/DH-Mauer
    1B/RF-Swisher
    OF/DH-Gentry
    2B/DH/SS-Profar

    Price
    Grienke
    Darvish
    Dickey
    Harrison



    Thank you, thank you... just hand me the rings now.

    Definitely not afraid to offer my perspective on things even if it is sharp contrast to the consensus.


    That stated while Price is a better pitcher than Greinke IMO he is not worth all those players and Beltre. In fact I wouldn't offer Ogando either. I stop and offer cash or another prospect.

    Ogando is a good bull pen guy and Beltre is too clutch. Holland on the other hand needs to go somewhere else along with Cruz....

    Texas needs to keep strong defensive players that make the pitcher that much better. Trading one of those players for a better pitcher is not smart baseball sense. to say Profar will take up the slack is a reach until he proves himself for an extended period of testing.
    Last edited by waveone; 12-07-2012 at 06:32 PM.

  9. #339
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    344
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by waveone View Post
    Definitely not afraid to offer my perspective on things even if it is sharp contrast to the consensus.


    That stated while Price is a better pitcher than Greinke IMO he is not worth all those players and Beltre. In fact I wouldn't offer Ogando either. I stop and offer cash or another prospect.

    Ogando is a good bull pen guy and Beltre is too clutch. Holland on the other hand needs to go somewhere else along with Cruz....

    Texas needs to keep strong defensive players that make the pitcher that much better. Trading one of those players for a better pitcher is not smart baseball sense. to say Profar will take up the slack is a reach until he proves himself for an extended period of testing.
    Just to be clear (because I know I wasn't and it's my fault), I was talking about Engel Beltre, the CF prospect. I think that might change how you feel about the trade offer dramatically.

  10. #340
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    160
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcculloch21 View Post
    Just to be clear (because I know I wasn't and it's my fault), I was talking about Engel Beltre, the CF prospect. I think that might change how you feel about the trade offer dramatically.
    LOL.....yes, dramatically.

  11. #341
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    344
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcculloch21 View Post
    Today's stab in the dark: (what I WANT, not what we'll do)

    Sign Grienke 7/175
    Sign Hamilton 4/93
    Sign Berkman 2/26

    Trade Young for cash and top A-ball prospect
    Trade Cruz for Dickey
    Trade Perez, Grimm, L. Martin for Mauer and Buxton
    Trade L. Garcia, Ross for Upton (through whatever team combo necessary)
    Trade Olt, Ogando, Holland, E. Beltre, and Gallo for David Price

    RF/DH/2B-Kinsler
    SS/DH-Andrus
    LF/DH-Hamilton
    3B-Beltre
    CF-Upton
    C/DH-Mauer
    1B/RF-Berkman
    OF/DH-Gentry
    2B/DH/SS-Profar

    Price
    Grienke
    Darvish
    Dickey
    Harrison
    Just made a couple of tweaks to my proposal.

  12. #342
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    9,683
    vCash
    1500
    even though they've lost out on zack greinke, the rangers still have interest in acquiring justin upton according to ken rosenthal of fox sports (on twitter). Jon heyman of cbssports.com says (on twitter) texas might also look into free agents anibal sanchez, michael bourn, and kyle lohse.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#zvw7r2rjbxlkr6sq.99
    -mlbtr

  13. #343
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,627
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    -mlbtr
    Saw that...

    No thanks on Bourn or Lohse. I could live with Sanchez, due to the fact he's a ground ball type pitcher, though I don't see him as that much of an upgrade to the younger guys I would prefer go out there and get a chance to prove themselves (Perez especially).

    A legit #1 or #1b makes sense, but I don't see Sanchez as much more than a #2b type even.

    Overall, I'm not enthused with what's developed so far.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  14. #344
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    9,683
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    Saw that...

    No thanks on Bourn or Lohse. I could live with Sanchez, due to the fact he's a ground ball type pitcher, though I don't see him as that much of an upgrade to the younger guys I would prefer go out there and get a chance to prove themselves (Perez especially).

    A legit #1 or #1b makes sense, but I don't see Sanchez as much more than a #2b type even.

    Overall, I'm not enthused with what's developed so far.
    I would be ecstatic if we landed Hamilton, Bourn, and Upton.

  15. #345
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    6,425
    vCash
    1500
    The silver lining (so far) of this off season is that we get to play the Astros so many times next year. That will be a big help in keeping our win total somewhat high.

    Part of me wishes we would have been 10 games out of 1st at the All-Star break last summer. Could you imagine what we could have netted for Hamilton & Napoli, Adams, etc...

    Quest to watch a game in all 30 baseball stadiums, so far I have seen: Arizona, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Colorado, Detroit, Houston, Kansas City, LA Angels, LA Dodgers, Miami, NY Mets, NY Yankees, Philly, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, St. Louis, San Diego, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Texas, Toronto, Washington

Page 23 of 48 FirstFirst ... 13212223242533 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •