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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmonster24 View Post
    I think Redsox would want your shortstop more then Hollands. Then they can try and trade Bucholz for Justin Uptin with few other players and sign Sanchez to replace Bucholz and sign Edwan Jackson.
    Yeah ZERO chance we trade Andrus or Profar for Ellsbury. No chance the D-backs take Buchholz as the centerpiece for Upton either. Neither deal makes any sense. I think you're overvaluing your players.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  2. #47
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    Starting pitching will be addressed this off season. I expect to see the busiest Rangers offseason in several years. We all saw the lack of run production and getting home RISP. I don't know who we get but I'd bet BIG money that we will land a #1 or upper echelon #2 starter. They gambled and lost on the rotation this year. Nolan & JD won't do that this year. They will trade for something to compliment Yu. My predictions for the offseason.

    1) Josh is GONE. It's already done. That money will go towards another 2 bats and a 1 or 2 starter.

    2) Rangers WILL acquire a TOP of the rotation guy via trade. Slim to NONE chance we get Felix but Josh Johnson and Tim Lincecum have already been mentioned. Greinke could also be had if they don't want to give up players in trade. There will be a new starters though.

    3) Napoli will probably be back, along with another C. I could also see them making a run at someone like Kelly Shoppach to split the duties with Nap. Pierzynski won't be here.

    4) CarGo or Upton will be here. You can write that down. It may cost us Andrus but one of them WILL be here. They have also expressed past interest in Michael Bourne who is a FA. He would be great in the middle yard.

    5) Feliz will be back in the bullpen when he returns.

    6) I see at least 3 new faces in the bullpen next year. There are some really good setup men. Adams will be back but there will also be another couple power arms brought in as well as a quality lefty.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    Yeah ZERO chance we trade Andrus or Profar for Ellsbury. No chance the D-backs take Buchholz as the centerpiece for Upton either. Neither deal makes any sense. I think you're overvaluing your players.
    Andrus is under contract for another year or two. He's also a Boras client. His value will never be higher. I don't think the Rangers are looking to trade him but I think they would definitely do so if they got the right player in return. Profar won't be traded.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-McD:23895924
    Andrus is under contract for another year or two. He's also a Boras client. His value will never be higher. I don't think the Rangers are looking to trade him but I think they would definitely do so if they got the right player in return. Profar won't be traded.
    I've already shot down this flawed logic once...time to do it again. Unless you can see the future...it's ridiculous to say Elvis' value will never be higher. He's 24! Let me say that again, TWENTY FOUR. That's, generally speaking, around 3 years short of the beginning of the average MLB players' peak years. People in this forum need to stop saying ridiculous stuff.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
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  5. #50
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    saw a note from the boston area that says people are kicking around the idea of ellsbury for holland. it also said boras will be seeking a deal in the 160 million dollar range for ellsbury after his final season under arb.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    I've already shot down this flawed logic once...time to do it again. Unless you can see the future...it's ridiculous to say Elvis' value will never be higher. He's 24! Let me say that again, TWENTY FOUR. That's, generally speaking, around 3 years short of the beginning of the average MLB players' peak years. People in this forum need to stop saying ridiculous stuff.
    I don't see that logic as being ridiculous. Yes, he's 24. His salary is also very affordable based on his offensive production and glove. His next contract will be HUGE and I don't believe he will be as attractive in trade as he his now, while he has a very team friendly deal. I'm not saying he won't get better as a player. I'm saying his salary-to-production value will NEVER be higher than it is in the deal he's on now.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-McD View Post
    I don't see that logic as being ridiculous. Yes, he's 24. His salary is also very affordable based on his offensive production and glove. His next contract will be HUGE and I don't believe he will be as attractive in trade as he his now, while he has a very team friendly deal. I'm not saying he won't get better as a player. I'm saying his salary-to-production value will NEVER be higher than it is in the deal he's on now.
    I def understand your point. length and amount of contract have to also be taken into consideration for a players value. With what he is providing and his very team friendly contract, I think you may be right, his value is very high right now and unless he improves drastically in the power department, he might really not have a higher value.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-McD View Post
    I don't see that logic as being ridiculous. Yes, he's 24. His salary is also very affordable based on his offensive production and glove. His next contract will be HUGE and I don't believe he will be as attractive in trade as he his now, while he has a very team friendly deal. I'm not saying he won't get better as a player. I'm saying his salary-to-production value will NEVER be higher than it is in the deal he's on now.
    I agree with this.

    He is young. He is affordable right now. The same could've been said last year, but I think he was missing the whole "proven" factor. After this season, I believe he's that as well.

    Where I disagree with everyone is on the "Boras point". Adrian Beltre is a Boras client and he's worked out fine here. I don't think we need to be scared off just because of Andrus' agent.

    Our problem is that we have too many cooks in the kitchen (too many starting IF's) and either A) need to deal one of them or B) shift one of them to another position. I don't know if Kinsler would make a good OFer, so it makes a lot of sense to deal someone. My vote is that we deal Kinsler, then let Profar take over at second. Andrus is worth a longterm contract, in my opinion, and it's not as if we can't afford to pay the guy.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    I agree with this.

    He is young. He is affordable right now. The same could've been said last year, but I think he was missing the whole "proven" factor. After this season, I believe he's that as well.

    Where I disagree with everyone is on the "Boras point". Adrian Beltre is a Boras client and he's worked out fine here. I don't think we need to be scared off just because of Andrus' agent.

    Our problem is that we have too many cooks in the kitchen (too many starting IF's) and either A) need to deal one of them or B) shift one of them to another position. I don't know if Kinsler would make a good OFer, so it makes a lot of sense to deal someone. My vote is that we deal Kinsler, then let Profar take over at second. Andrus is worth a longterm contract, in my opinion, and it's not as if we can't afford to pay the guy.

    I agree with this assessment, not sure why people emphasize the Boras factor so much when talking about keeping or trading Andrus....Starlin Castro's recent contract extension is where the Rangers would probably start contract negotiations for Andrus as they have a pretty similar skill set. Andrus is a better fielder and more seasoned so he will obviously get a bigger contract but it should definitely not be an elite type of contract...My guess for a contract extension for Andrus even with Boras as his agent would be about $10-$11M/year for about 9-10 years. I think the Rangers would be comfortable with that contract and it would be a fair offer for someone who really isnt an offensive threat and it keeps Andrus here throughout his prime....so why all the emphasis on Boras?

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-McD:23908140
    I don't see that logic as being ridiculous. Yes, he's 24. His salary is also very affordable based on his offensive production and glove. His next contract will be HUGE and I don't believe he will be as attractive in trade as he his now, while he has a very team friendly deal. I'm not saying he won't get better as a player. I'm saying his salary-to-production value will NEVER be higher than it is in the deal he's on now.
    That's still flawed logic. Let's be realistic, Elvis is not going to get a $20M+/yr dollar contract. $12-15/yr is much more likely. We owe him $11M over the next two years. So a little under half price for what he's likely to sign for. Meanwhile, in two or three years he might be the best shortstop in the league.

    The other factor people who make comments like this fail to address is the team he gets shipped to knows about the contract coming. You guys act like only the Rangers see that he's getting a raise soon. So move him now, right? Unless he's gonna make an impact on a contender over the next two seasons, he's not worth ****.

    Realistically speaking, who will we get for him that's actually worth Elvis? I mean that seriously. What team will give us a break even or better trade? Any team that could make use of him in the next two years isn't likely to give us a player that will make us truly better. Which team is giving us an ace for Elvis? It's not Tampa, they've made that clear. I think you guys are just trying to believe his value versus what's available out there is more than what it really is.

    So, I stick by my comments of how ridiculous that statement is. You guys are free to believe how you wish, but given the choice, I'd take the best shortstop in the league when they're 27 at $16M/yr for 5 more years over the 4th or 5th best at 24 and 25 for $5.5M per year. Especially when you look at the market for what we could REALISTICALLY get for Elvis. Keep dreaming of Price for Elvis, it's not happening.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    That's still flawed logic. Let's be realistic, Elvis is not going to get a $20M+/yr dollar contract. $12-15/yr is much more likely. We owe him $11M over the next two years. So a little under half price for what he's likely to sign for. Meanwhile, in two or three years he might be the best shortstop in the league.

    The other factor people who make comments like this fail to address is the team he gets shipped to knows about the contract coming. You guys act like only the Rangers see that he's getting a raise soon. So move him now, right? Unless he's gonna make an impact on a contender over the next two seasons, he's not worth ****.

    Realistically speaking, who will we get for him that's actually worth Elvis? I mean that seriously. What team will give us a break even or better trade? Any team that could make use of him in the next two years isn't likely to give us a player that will make us truly better. Which team is giving us an ace for Elvis? It's not Tampa, they've made that clear. I think you guys are just trying to believe his value versus what's available out there is more than what it really is.

    So, I stick by my comments of how ridiculous that statement is. You guys are free to believe how you wish, but given the choice, I'd take the best shortstop in the league when they're 27 at $16M/yr for 5 more years over the 4th or 5th best at 24 and 25 for $5.5M per year. Especially when you look at the market for what we could REALISTICALLY get for Elvis. Keep dreaming of Price for Elvis, it's not happening.

    That bolded statement makes absolutely no sense, of course everyone knows that he has 2 years left on his contract and will be getting a significant raise with his next contract....I dont think anyone has ignored that or even hinted that other teams dont know that....I would also assume that any team that would have interest in him would have a mindset that they will be in position to be contenders for the duration of his contract. Added to the fact that Andrus value is higher with having two years of control instead of just one so value wise it does make sense to trade him now. Whether they will or not is a different story, and you dont think trading Andrus for Upton would be getting fair value for Andrus? I sure as hell would....I also think the Rays would def listen to an offer that included Andrus if we added cash and other specs (maybe Buckel and Sardinas). How do you not at least contemplate on an offer like that when you have one of the deepest pitching staffs in the game?

  12. #57
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    I agree with points on both sides of this arguments, but what it all comes down to is WHERE he could be dealt. A few thoughts...

    Tampa: I agree with Skizzik here (and have said this quite a few times) that Andrus wouldn't fit longterm plans, being that Tampa has a limited payroll. So, unless they're getting a guy like Profar, there's no way dealing Price for a guy that would only be there for 2 years would be worth it to them.

    Arizona: Here's where I agree with slugger. Who's to say Arizona couldn't afford to re-sign Andrus a couple years from now? They would have the finances to do so and a swap of Upton, who appeared to be wanting out of Phoenix, for a guy that (as you said Skizzik) could be the best SS in the league in a couple years, would make a lot of sense for both teams.

    Yankees: They'd have the money for him (and I imagine they'll be a player for him when FA rolls around in a couple years), but there's nothing to get from them.

    Red Sox: Again, here's a team that could afford him and would probably love to get a real SS. They have guys like Jacoby Ellsbury who, while I don't personally like that deal (he'd only have 1 year on his contract and is pretty injury prone), would fill a need for this Rangers team.

    San Francisco: What about an Andrus for Lincecum swap? I realize that something was wrong with Timmy this year, but with his value at it's lowest, maybe both teams would make this deal.

    Then you have the teams that could afford him in a couple years...

    Dodgers: Don't need him with Hanley there.
    Cubs: Don't need him with Castro there.
    Angels: Never count them out, but no way the Rangers make a deal with them.
    Mets: Laugh at this one, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them with money and in rebuild mode here in a couple years.
    Cardinals: Could afford him, but who do you want from that team?
    White Sox: Not sure what we'd want, but I imagine their priorities will revolve around pitching anyway.

    To me, it still comes down to the fact that we've got one too many IF'ers here. Profar should be playing next year and since we're not dealing him, that means Elvis or Ian has to go. I've stated my preference, but it'll come down to what other teams want as well. Is Ian more valuable than Elvis or vice versa?

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  13. #58
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    some Rangers notes:

    Rangers Notes: Hamilton, Greinke, Napoli, Adams
    By Mark Polishuk [October 11 at 6:53pm CST]
    As the Rangers are still recovering from their disappointing finish to 2012, MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan discussed a number of offseason possibilities for the club as part of a reader mailbag piece. Some of the hot stove highlights...

    Josh Hamilton will get at least one big-money, long-term offer this winter, leaving little chance that the Rangers would be able to sign him for any kind of relative discount, Hamilton believes. Rangers GM Jon Daniels said earlier this week that his team will wait to see what contract offers Hamilton receives from other clubs before making their own pitch to the free agent outfielder.
    Zack Greinke will be a top target for the Rangers this winter. "The Rangers made a strong push for him at the trade deadline...and this is still an organization that wants to build around pitching. That's where the club wants to spend its money," Sullivan writes.
    The Rangers are "unsure" about making a qualifying offer to pending free agent Mike Napoli since if he accepted, Texas would owe the catcher approximately $13.35MM for the 2013 season. If the Rangers didn't issue a qualifying offer and Napoli signed elsewhere, however, then the Rangers wouldn't receive any draft pick compensation. Sullivan argues that Napoli could accept the qualifying offer in the wake of his somewhat disappointing 2012 season and look to rebound in 2013 to set himself up for a larger long-term deal with Texas or another club.
    Though Mike Adams has been diagnosed with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, Sullivan thinks the 34-year-old reliever could still find a multiyear deal as a free agent. The Rangers would happily take Adams back on a one-year deal.
    Sullivan doesn't think Jacoby Ellsbury is a good fit in Texas and doesn't think the Rangers should or would trade Derek Holland or Elvis Andrus in exchange for the Red Sox center fielder. "[Nelson] Cruz for Ellsbury, maybe. But it would seem more logical to take a chance on Leonys Martin than give up substantial talent for an injury-prone outfielder who can walk after next season," opines Sullivan.
    Despite the numerous rumors about a Justin Upton trade, Sullivan isn't sure he's a fit for the Rangers since Cruz is already set at right field. Center field would be the only question mark for Texas next season if Hamilton leaves, as the Rangers have Cruz in right and David Murphy in left.
    Michael Young could receive some trade interest this winter from "a team in need of veteran leadership, as well as somebody who can play second base." Young hit .277/.312/.370 in 651 plate appearances last season, his lowest career OPS for a full campaign. Young turns 36 this month and is set to earn $16MM in 2013, the final year of his contract. He also has no-trade protection as a 10-and-5 player, adding another wrinkle to any possible trade talks.
    -MLBTR

  14. #59
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    I say trade Ian Kinsler and a few prospects to Arizona for Justin Upton or too Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez.I would then try to sign Zack Grienke and call it good.

  15. #60
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    If only it was that easy. Kinsler for Cargo would be a trade both teams would benefit from. Kins would hit 30+ homers in Coors Field.
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