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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    First, the Bourn trade happened at the deadline, when there were far less teams looking to deal. Second, we only got 1 year and 2 months of Bourn - whereas we'd be getting 2 years with a reasonable option for a third. That's basically twice the value. Third, the Bourn trade wasn't for Schafer, it was for all the pitching depth we had. Abreu and Olberholtzer are very promising young arms, and Clemens projected as serviceable. And by all accounts we still gave Houston the shaft on that trade because their farm system was starved for depth.

    I don't know how many different ways to put it - CFers with his contract and OBP skills just aren't cheap in terms of prospects. I know you want it to be true, but it just isn't.
    No matter how you put it, span isnt as good as bourn. We really didnt give up much for an all star, gold glove, league stolen base leader. Span is solid, but its not going to take multiple top 5 prospects to get a Cf who is a few ticks above average. Especially ntot when Pagan, Upton,bourn,hamilton, and victorino as other teams options. Its not like he's this high demand ,1 and only player that everyone wants.
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  2. #842
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    I wouldn't mind Choo. He has an equivalent WAR to Bourn since 08 and has more power and can be a lead off guy. We would need to move him to left field. Choo upton and Heyward would be the best OF in the league.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by westside View Post
    No matter how you put it, span isnt as good as bourn. We really didnt give up much for an all star, gold glove, league stolen base leader. Span is solid, but its not going to take multiple top 5 prospects to get a Cf who is a few ticks above average. Especially ntot when Pagan, Upton,bourn,hamilton, and victorino as other teams options. Its not like he's this high demand ,1 and only player that everyone wants.
    Span was worth 0.005442478 WAR per PA.

    Bourn was worth 0.005679702 WAR per PA. Both BR stats, 2005-2012 sample size (when both players became regulars)

    Span is a year younger. There isn't a whole lot of difference between them, though I agree Bourn is probably slightly better. If you don't think a prime CFer with a team-friendly contract who can hit leadoff is not in high demand then you just don't know baseball.

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyRyback View Post
    I wouldn't mind Choo. He has an equivalent WAR to Bourn since 08 and has more power and can be a lead off guy. We would need to move him to left field. Choo upton and Heyward would be the best OF in the league.
    I like Choo, but this is his last season before FA. Doubt we can resign him.

    Rather get guys who we control for more than one season.

  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Span was worth 0.005442478 WAR per PA.

    Bourn was worth 0.005679702 WAR per PA. Both BR stats, 2005-2012 sample size (when both players became regulars)

    Span is a year younger. There isn't a whole lot of difference between them, though I agree Bourn is probably slightly better. If you don't think a prime CFer with a team-friendly contract who can hit leadoff is not in high demand then you just don't know baseball.
    Not in demand as in not the one everyones after. The only time you heard his name in the rumor mill was in connection to the braves. like I said he's solid, but He isnt going to demand an enormous package.
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  6. #846
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    What about Bonifacio? He'd be an ideal leadoff man and has played every position on the field. The Jays are looking to add another SP and after signing Melky Cabrera, they have a lot of bats.

  7. #847
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    I thought Bonifacio as soon as the trade went though but he isn't very good in CF, think they want him playing 2B as well.

  8. #848
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    Idk, I guess he could play LF, but im not sold on him in center.
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  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaj View Post
    Still hate the Upton idea. Severe downgrade in defense and strikes out way more than Bourn (which many complained about). Don't know if the pop is worth is. I don't think it is.
    Everyone in CF is a downgrade because Bourn was the best last year, Upton is an above average CF, Upton struck out 14 more times but hit 18 more homers, still a very risky signing.

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    Everyone in CF is a downgrade because Bourn was the best last year, Upton is an above average CF, Upton struck out 14 more times but hit 18 more homers, still a very risky signing.
    Bourn also walked 25 more times, had a UZR/150 of 22.5 to Upton's -3.2

    He is a down grade, but if the price is right...

    For Uptons career he does have a .256/.340/.400/.740 line in inter-league, just over 400 PAs
    Last edited by Wrench; 11-17-2012 at 07:15 AM.

  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Bourn also walked 25 more times, had a UZR/150 of 22.5 to Upton's -3.2

    He is a down grade, but if the price is right...

    For Uptons career he does have a .256/.340/.400/.740 line in inter-league, just over 400 PAs
    He had a down year at the defensive end, he's been above average his entire career UZR 3.9. Even Bourn had a -6.2 UZR in 2011. Like you said if the price is right Upton can be a force in the middle of the lineup.

  12. #852
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    I hoped we could get a better option at Center, but Wren knows what hes doing.

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    I thought Bonifacio as soon as the trade went though but he isn't very good in CF, think they want him playing 2B as well.
    I was thinking of him more as a LF who can backup CF and SS. Since the Jays signed Maicer Izturis earlier this offseason to a 3 year $10 million deal, I would think the Jays would be open to moving Bonifacio if they could get some SP depth.

    With Simmons at SS, there wouldn't be a need to have an all glove/no bat backup like we needed with Pasornicky last year. You could also move him around the field to give guys days off... sliding Prado to LF and giving Francisco playing time at 3B.

    Sure I'd love to sign BJ Upton or Bourn and Hamilton or Swisher... but if the cost gets too high, Bonifacio might be a good alternative.

  14. #854
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    Atlanta was 22nd overall in Slugging % this past season.

    - No Braves regular had a SLG% above .500.
    - Three were between .450-.499: Heyward, Freeman, Jones.
    - Two were between .400-.449: Prado and Simmons.
    - More than four were .399 or worse: Mac, Uggla, Bourn, and every-shortstop-not-named-Simba.

    Compare that to two great lineups: NYY and STL

    - One Yankee regular had a SLG% above .500: Cano.
    - FIVE were between .450-.499: Chaves, Granderson, Tex, Swisher, Ibanez.
    - Three were between .400-.449: Jeter, A-Rod, Martin.
    - No Yankee regular was below .400 in 2012. None.

    - TWO Cards regulars had SLG% above .500: Craig and Molina.
    - Three were between .450-.499: Holliday, Beltran, Freese.
    - One was between .400-.449: Jon Jay.
    - The Cards had players below .400 like Furcal and Descalso, but they also had two other players who contributed down the stretch: Carpenter: .469 (114 games + playoffs) and Kozma: .569 (26 games + playoffs)

    The SLG% of some players being mentioned for the Braves (and consider their ages):

    Center Field
    B.Upton .454
    Pagan .440
    Span .395
    Victorino .351

    Left Field
    J.Upton .430 (.529 in 2011)
    Willingham .524
    Ross .481
    Swisher .473

    All of these guys would help our lineup in some way, offensive or defensively, so it's about cost and age. What they REALLY need is some current Braves to step it up. And for the record: If Wren does sign BJ Upton, I might let him bat leadoff. (He had a .928 OPS at leadoff in 2012 in 55 ABs. Yeah SSS, but so what. )
    Last edited by Bravo95; 11-17-2012 at 03:52 PM.

  15. #855
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    Also: Prado, when playing 3B last season ---> .365/.407/.482 (85 at bats)

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