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  1. #31
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    Mac and Maholm for Ellsbury and Salty?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco
    Yea I mean This is about as big of a Market as you can get without being a BIG market club.
    The only true big US markets are places like NY, Chicago, and LA. Then you have places that have high population and are able to sustain multiple pro sports team: Bay area, Philly, Boston, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, DC, Detroit, etc. Then you have the 3rd tier, markets that rely on civic pride to keep sports teams flowing: OKC (basketball), Green Bay (football), etc. For the most part, people only think of "big market" as wherever the star power is, even if it's not a HUGE city, (eg; Miami Heat)

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by yakubripper View Post
    Everybody, I don't care who you are or how much you think you know, is wrong if they think Uggla can't be traded. Sorry. Your just wrong. There is no rule in baseball that says Dan Uggla cannot be traded from the Braves.
    The question is how REALISTIC it is that Uggla gets traded. That's the only question. All of this "uggla can't be traded" talk is crap.
    As I've stated before....if Danny Ferry can trade Joe Johnson, another guy that "couldn't be traded"...Wren can move Uggla.
    If you disagree, then you are wrong.
    Yes it could happen but the odds are so low and the Braves would have to eat so much cash that it is not worth discussing. We have 2 spots to fill, 3b/LF and CF, and moving Uggla does nothing for either of those.


    The Cult of Gattis

  4. #34
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    09:06 AM ET 10.07 | The Angels are expected to make a serious attempt to keep Zack Greinke. But smart money says he joins the Braves, who tried hard to trade for him.

    Chicago Tribune
    If he wants to come here at a discount, I for one would welcome him!

  5. #35
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    Adding Greinke would mean Hudson moves to #3, which is a good spot for him at this stage of his career.

  6. #36
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    Offense upgrades and salary alleviation

    Derek Lowe money is coming free but we still need to trim the fat to make some moves this offseason.

    Chipper is leaving , yes. Here's our issue, we had only two guys this year with an OBP over .350, Chipper .377 and Prado .359.

    Meanwhile, the Yankees who will likely win the series (sumb1tches), have Cano .379, Jeter .362, Swisher .364, A-Rod, .353, not to mention the team hit like a thousand more home runs than we did. Now, Hamilton would be a great move, but will only replace Chipper's bat. We need more, much more. We have salaries and players we just have to dump as they're killing the teams chances of going anywhere when the stakes are high (postseason). Look at S.L., who beat us, they have Berkman, Holliday, Jay, Molina, Freese, Carpenter and Craig (6 guys discounting the short season Berkman) with OBP's over .350. Considering our 2 pitchers were pretty even keel, how could we ever have expected to win that game??? Now Hamilton is a 5-tool player, like Heyward was expected to be....He has an OBP of .354, so indeed a good bat replacement for Chipper, but we need more. The Tigers might win it all, they have Fielder (.412 OBP and Cabrera .393) good God! Why can't we be like this??? Plus Jackson at .377, Dirks at .370 and Avila at .352. We don't have enough pop, not NEARLY enough.

    Salary moves:

    Pitchers (We're REALLY good here, especially if Beachy comes back healthy, I'm not too concerned about pitching. We do have 2 problem salaries we need to cut though:

    NO. NAME POS BAT THW AGE HT WT BIRTH PLACE SALARY

    52 Miguel Batista RP R R 41 6-1 210 Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic $750,000 17
    Paul Maholm SP L L 30 6-2 220 Greenwood, MS $4,250,000

    Other salaries we need to alleviate are in bold below. By alleviate, I mean, these people need to go, period. They aren't pulling their enormous weight:

    Catchers

    NO. NAME POS BAT THW AGE HT WT BIRTH PLACE SALARY

    garbage 7 J.C. Boscan C R R 32 6-2 215 Maracaibo, Venezuela N/A
    .200 0 2 .200 OBP

    16 Brian McCann C L R 28 6-3 230 Athens, GA $11,500,000
    .230 20 67 .300 OBP We might wait and see how he does coming off his upcoming shoulder surgery but if we really don't think he can return to form, he's gotta go as much as I hate to say it. Oblique and shoulder injuries, he's done. We do have a buy out option I hope?

    8 David Ross C R R 35 6-2 205 Bainbridge, GA $1,625,000
    .256 9 23 .321 OBP I hold onto him

    Infielders
    NO. NAME POS BAT THW AGE HT WT BIRTH PLACE SALARY

    2 Jeff Baker 1B R R 31 6-2 210 Bad Kissingen, West Germany $1,375,000 .239 4 25 .279 OBP Get rid of this.

    garbage 25 Juan Francisco 3B L R 25 6-2 243 Bonao, Dominican Republic $480,000 .234 9 32 .278 OBP

    5 Freddie Freeman 1B L R 23 6-5 225 Fountain Valley, CA $535,000
    .259 23 94 .340 OBP My favorite everyday player with Chips leaving, a keeper, kid has big potential.

    garbage 4 Paul Janish SS R R 29 6-2 200 Houston, TX N/A
    .186 0 9 .269

    Goodbye future HOFer 10 Chipper Jones 3B B R 40 6-4 210 Deland, FL $14,000,000 Money freed up .287 14 62 .377 OBP

    27 Lyle Overbay 1B L L 35 6-2 235 Centralia, WA $1,000,000
    .259 2 10 .331 OBP, garbage, get rid of him.

    garbage 1 Tyler Pastornicky SS R R 22 5-11 190 Bradenton, FL $480,000 .243 2 13 .287 OBP

    garbage 19 Andrelton Simmons SS R R 23 6-2 170 Mundo-Novo, Netherlands Antilles N/A .289 3 19 .335 OBP Maybe a decent backup SS, but we need a REAL SS this offseason, in addition to MANY other glaring holes in the offense.

    26 Dan Uggla 2B R R 32 5-11 207 Louisville, KY $13,146,942
    .220 19 78 .348 OBP Terrible, just terrible. Turribl as Barkley would say. Free up this money to acquire another bat like Hamilton. I can't stand another Uggla year. In fact, I need to rename my sig to Perrenial Failures versus Getting Uggla because it's gotten Uggla too many times to count.

    Outfielders
    NO. NAME POS BAT THW AGE HT WT BIRTH PLACE SALARY

    24 Michael Bourn CF L R 29 5-11 180 Houston, TX $6,845,000 .274 9 57 .348 OBP Goodbye, more money freed up. Yes!

    Garbage 13 Jose Constanza LF L L 29 5-9 150 Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic $480,000 .250 0 4 .321 OBP

    22 Jason Heyward RF L L 23 6-5 240 Ridgewood, NJ $565,000
    .269 27 82 .335 OBP Have to admit, he came around a bit this year, he's no 5 tool player yet and still wouldn't label him the franchise, Freeman has that in my eyes, or Kimbrel or Medlen or Huddy, but he'll do. Keep him.

    garbage 20 Eric Hinske LF L R 35 6-2 235 Menasha, WI $1,600,000.197 2 13 .272 OBP Free up this money and buy/bring up 3-4 bench guys that can probably all hit better.

    11 Reed Johnson RF R R 35 5-10 180 Riverside, CA $1,150,000.290 3 20 .337 Too much money for this production and lack of playing time.

    14 Martin Prado LF R R 28 6-1 190 Maracay, Venezuela $4,750,000.301 10 70 .359 OBP Hard to argue his value and potential. Keep him. Unless we get a more suitable replacement this offseason I put him at 3B to replace Chipper. After all, we have too many other needs as it is at C, SS, 2B, LF and CF.

    garbage 23 Matt Diaz DL RF R R 34 6-0 215 Portland, OR $2,125,000 .222 2 13 .280 OBP Free up this money, we need it, again use like Hinske money to buy a new and improved bench. Even a makeshift bench beats our current bunch of bad news bears.

    We have so much to do to get back to good again. Again, we need a new C, SS, 2B, LF and CF.

    Start with Hamilton, drop BMAC and UGGLA, then get a SS, 2B and OF. Don't worry about pitching, I really think our staff is ok. They just need guys that can back them up by sounding off like they have a pair.
    Last edited by Getting UGGLA; 10-08-2012 at 04:15 PM.
    1991 Lost WS to Twins 4-3
    1992 Lost WS to Blue Jays 4-2
    1993 Lost NLCS to Phillies 4-2
    1996 Lost WS to Yankees 4-2 (led 2-0)
    1997 Lost NLCS to Marlins 4-2
    1998 Lost NLCS to Padres 4-2
    1999 Lost WS 4-0 to Yankees
    2000 Lost NLDS 3-0 to Cardinals
    2001 Lost NLCS to Diamondbacks 4-1
    2002 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Giants
    2003 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Cubs
    2004 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Astros
    2005 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Astros
    2010 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Giants
    2012 Lost NLWC 1-0 to Cardinals
    2013 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Dodgers

  7. #37
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    Andrelton's our SS, and he's great. Not sure why you wouldn't like him...

  8. #38
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    On Base Percentage is kind of fool's gold, the 2010 Braves (under Pendleton) were #1 in the NL in OBP but it didn't mean much since they didn't have mashers who could drive them in. That's what has been killing this team in recent years, and it killed them on Friday: Not driving in runners. Oh and (infield) errors, and the tidal wave began with Jones' horrendous throw.

    As far as I'm concerned, Heyward, Prado and Bourn should be damn near above criticism from the fan base because those three kept them in the race with their offense AND defense. All three were superior to Freeman in 2012, and Simmons is a future stud. Jones is not irreplaceable -- move Prado to 3rd and you have an immediate upgrade defensively, solid bat, and unlike his predecessor, a guy who will actually hustle 'til the final out and not point fingers at teammates. The key is finding a younger corner OF who won't break the bank.
    Last edited by Bravo95; 10-08-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    Andrelton's our SS, and he's great. Not sure why you wouldn't like him...
    Because he isn't ready. Baserunning blunder and throwing error were costly in the WC game.
    1991 Lost WS to Twins 4-3
    1992 Lost WS to Blue Jays 4-2
    1993 Lost NLCS to Phillies 4-2
    1996 Lost WS to Yankees 4-2 (led 2-0)
    1997 Lost NLCS to Marlins 4-2
    1998 Lost NLCS to Padres 4-2
    1999 Lost WS 4-0 to Yankees
    2000 Lost NLDS 3-0 to Cardinals
    2001 Lost NLCS to Diamondbacks 4-1
    2002 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Giants
    2003 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Cubs
    2004 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Astros
    2005 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Astros
    2010 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Giants
    2012 Lost NLWC 1-0 to Cardinals
    2013 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Dodgers

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getting UGGLA View Post
    Because he isn't ready. Baserunning blunder and throwing error were costly in the WC game.
    So was Chipper's error, what a bum that guy was!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    On Base Percentage is kind of fool's gold, the 2010 Braves (under Pendleton) were #1 in the NL in OBP but it didn't mean much since they didn't have mashers who could drive them in. That's what has been killing this team in recent years, and it killed them on Friday: Not driving in runners. Oh and (infield) errors, and the tidal wave began with Jones' horrendous throw.

    As far as I'm concerned, Heyward, Prado and Bourn should be damn near above criticism from the fan base because those three kept them in the race with their offense AND defense. All three were superior to Freeman in 2012, and Simmons is a future stud. Jones is not irreplaceable -- move Prado to 3rd and you have an immediate upgrade defensively, solid bat, and unlike his predecessor, a guy who will actually hustle 'til the final out and not point fingers at teammates. The key is finding a younger corner OF who won't break the bank.
    Agreed. Bourn is history though. Borass agent. Heyward and Prado will play every day. Hamilton will replace Bourn, and we WILL win the bid war for him, we damn well better. Simmons, a stud? Not sure about that.....Prado to 3B yes. Still need a new 2B and C. Those two are killing us whether some people on this board are willing to admit it or not.
    1991 Lost WS to Twins 4-3
    1992 Lost WS to Blue Jays 4-2
    1993 Lost NLCS to Phillies 4-2
    1996 Lost WS to Yankees 4-2 (led 2-0)
    1997 Lost NLCS to Marlins 4-2
    1998 Lost NLCS to Padres 4-2
    1999 Lost WS 4-0 to Yankees
    2000 Lost NLDS 3-0 to Cardinals
    2001 Lost NLCS to Diamondbacks 4-1
    2002 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Giants
    2003 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Cubs
    2004 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Astros
    2005 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Astros
    2010 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Giants
    2012 Lost NLWC 1-0 to Cardinals
    2013 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Dodgers

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    So was Chipper's error, what a bum that guy was!
    Dude, his line is: .289AVG 3HR 19RBI .335 OBP. Decent, but not jaw dropping. Again, we need bats, his spot is just one of them. 2B, C, LF, CF are the others.
    1991 Lost WS to Twins 4-3
    1992 Lost WS to Blue Jays 4-2
    1993 Lost NLCS to Phillies 4-2
    1996 Lost WS to Yankees 4-2 (led 2-0)
    1997 Lost NLCS to Marlins 4-2
    1998 Lost NLCS to Padres 4-2
    1999 Lost WS 4-0 to Yankees
    2000 Lost NLDS 3-0 to Cardinals
    2001 Lost NLCS to Diamondbacks 4-1
    2002 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Giants
    2003 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Cubs
    2004 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Astros
    2005 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Astros
    2010 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Giants
    2012 Lost NLWC 1-0 to Cardinals
    2013 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Dodgers

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getting UGGLA View Post
    Dude, his line is: .289AVG 3HR 19RBI .335 OBP. Decent, but not jaw dropping. Again, we need bats, his spot is just one of them. 2B, C, LF, CF are the others.
    Is this going to be like last off-season, when you jumped all over Heyward?

    Yes those whre his numbers, over 49 games. If he just keeps that pace over the season he winds up with .289/.335/.416/.751 with 9hrs and 57 RBI's, not bad for a gold glove caliber SS. Also he did this while hitting 8th infront of the pitcher. A guy that can hit .289 infront of the pitcher, is no slouch!

    On second thought..... Seeing how it turned out for Jason, please jump all over the kid!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB75 View Post
    Is this going to be like last off-season, when you jumped all over Heyward?

    Yes those whre his numbers, over 49 games. If he just keeps that pace over the season he winds up with .289/.335/.416/.751 with 9hrs and 57 RBI's, not bad for a gold glove caliber SS. Also he did this while hitting 8th infront of the pitcher. A guy that can hit .289 infront of the pitcher, is no slouch!

    On second thought..... Seeing how it turned out for Jason, please jump all over the kid!
    Sorry I forgot I was talking to the man who thinks Jason Heyward is the second coming. And yes, Heyward bounced back but was he one of the best players in the majors? Hell no! I said, he'll suffice, that's it. We have numerous problems. On top of that, SS is a spot where we can aquire a talent, a MUCH BETTER talent than Simmons and not be affected. He would play backup and develop into a BETTER talent. If another team is going to make a multi-player deal with us, we have multiple positions we need help, and SS is one of them. After his play in the WC game, I'm definitely not sold on Simmons, his play or his attitude, and outside his average which is decent, nothing about him is appealing to me.
    1991 Lost WS to Twins 4-3
    1992 Lost WS to Blue Jays 4-2
    1993 Lost NLCS to Phillies 4-2
    1996 Lost WS to Yankees 4-2 (led 2-0)
    1997 Lost NLCS to Marlins 4-2
    1998 Lost NLCS to Padres 4-2
    1999 Lost WS 4-0 to Yankees
    2000 Lost NLDS 3-0 to Cardinals
    2001 Lost NLCS to Diamondbacks 4-1
    2002 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Giants
    2003 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Cubs
    2004 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Astros
    2005 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Astros
    2010 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Giants
    2012 Lost NLWC 1-0 to Cardinals
    2013 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Dodgers

  15. #45
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    Getting Uggla, i'm sorry but i think you are a joke...Where do i start...
    Paul Maholm for 4,250,000 is a bargain, 3.66 and 3.67 ERA the last two years, a ground ball pitcher which sabermetrics says he is a good 3rd starter. So getting rid of him is a mistake.

    With no one else to replace McCann in the organization or in FA, we don't have another option so you can be pretty sure he will be back.

    Pastornicky doesn't bring much to the team but he should be in the minors next year so we don't have to worry for his contract.

    If we want to trade Uggla we will have to eat a big part of his salary, so there's no way we will get more value with the money left to spend. We're stuck with him (he brings value to the team anyway).

    We need a real SS next season? wow just speechless. Not even going to lose my time explaining to you why Simmons is the best choice, and that he is the best SS in this organization since Furcal.

    If we bring back Reed Johnson back for a salary around 1 million, is a no brainer, a guy who can play all three OF positions, and kills lefties. NO BRAINER.

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