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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getting UGGLA View Post
    12 million is far too much to exercise on McCann when he is a giant ? and Ross has been nothing short of hero for us. Use that money for a LF.
    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post
    No, spoken like someone who realizes that random chance has a lot more to do with the outcome of a single game than the fact that the Braves lost a similar game 11 years ago. When I say "a great chance," I mean at least 25%, or a 50-50 chance in each game.

    You don't really think that the game 1 loss in the 2001 NLCS has any bearing at all on this year's loss. How many players from that team are still around anywhere in the organization? Is it something the clubhouse guys mix into the Gatorade or what? Five of the seven losses you mention (2005 and before) are completely irrelevant. There are some holdovers from the 2010 team, but that's two games. Randomness is still way more of a factor than some imagined concept of "resiliency and toughness." These are professional athletes. If they couldn't handle pressure, they wouldn't be professional athletes. Clutch performance is a story we fans like to invent because it adds drama and makes things fun to watch, but it's not real.

    Your comments don't upset me at all. They're just not based in any kind of evidence.



    That was a typo on my part. I meant third base OR left field (depending on where Prado plays) and center field. I'm glad to see you accept that Uggla and McCann aren't going anywhere...all of us wish we could upgrade at those positions from the way those two performed in 2012, but there just isn't much choice given the payroll considerations.

    And for the record, Quentin signed an extension on July 22.



    I can agree that $12 million is a lot to lay out for a guy that may not even outperform David Ross next year. The problem for the Braves is twofold: there's a huge PR hit from just releasing a fan favorite like Brian McCann, and Ross has never been an everyday catcher. At age 36, there's a huge risk of decline and overexposure. And frankly, I don't think there's that much need for too much extra cash. The Braves can use young pitching trade chips to fill either left or center with a cheap, controllable player, and it's not like signing a big-money contract is something the Braves want to do anyway. Take a guy like Josh Hamilton...even if they could free up money to sign him, his age and health history indicate that he'd quickly turn into another Dan Uggla contract, on a much larger scale.
    You can't just flay get rid of McCann however I can see him taking a Tim Hudson type deal. Tim was due 12M in 2010 (option year) and he opted to take a pay cut (9M) for 3 guarantied years (2010, 2011, 2012) with a 9M option for 2013. I could dig McCann at 7ish Mil for the next 3 years (if he gets healthy) Thoughts
    Sgt Devildog
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipurmunki View Post
    i'm all for trading hanson. if it came down to it, 6.5 for maholm (vet lefty, was really good for us) is better than a gamble on hanson. couldn't we get more for minor though? i like minor as much as the next guy, but he has better upside, imo, and as streaky as he was, i think he's more of a sure bet than hanson. if we can get a good OF (span) or serviceable 3B or 2B with a minor trade, i think i would be able to stomach the dice-rolling of keeping hanson.
    Minor most def has more value today than Hanson does. However Minor is a fixture after the last 4 months he had. Would rather give up Hanson for a Major league ready prospect and 1-2 other specs than give Minor away for a Good OF (CF I assume) and a serviceable 3B. Keep in mind that Minor Makes the min and Hanson is going through Arb this year so Minor will make 500K next year to Hanson's close to 4M. Braves14 has been against me trading Hanson. Braves14, would you keep Maholm for another year if you could get a "Good OF and serviceable 3B?
    Sgt Devildog
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtgthree View Post


    I can agree that $12 million is a lot to lay out for a guy that may not even outperform David Ross next year. The problem for the Braves is twofold: there's a huge PR hit from just releasing a fan favorite like Brian McCann, and Ross has never been an everyday catcher. At age 36, there's a huge risk of decline and overexposure. And frankly, I don't think there's that much need for too much extra cash. The Braves can use young pitching trade chips to fill either left or center with a cheap, controllable player, and it's not like signing a big-money contract is something the Braves want to do anyway. Take a guy like Josh Hamilton...even if they could free up money to sign him, his age and health history indicate that he'd quickly turn into another Dan Uggla contract, on a much larger scale.
    Wouldn't you agree we better off letting McCann go and sign/trade another catcher in offseason? BMac had declining numbers last few years. If he would to have surgery, they say recovery would be 4-5 months. That's hardly any time to get ready for the season. He is a fan favorite and that's what's tough about this situation but this is also business. Why take the risk when we can free up that money for elsewhere? 12 million is a lot...

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    You can't just flay get rid of McCann however I can see him taking a Tim Hudson type deal. Tim was due 12M in 2010 (option year) and he opted to take a pay cut (9M) for 3 guarantied years (2010, 2011, 2012) with a 9M option for 2013. I could dig McCann at 7ish Mil for the next 3 years (if he gets healthy) Thoughts
    It's a possibility but i'd rather wait this year to see if McCann is healthy, if he has an "good year for a catcher" i see him taking a pay cut and sign with the braves, he is the type of player who will do that. I can't find another way to spend those 12 millions that will solve our catching problems, I think McCann if healthy is capable of putting good numbers so i'm not afraid of exercising his option. If he has another down year or doesn't get healthy it will represent a problem for us if he is in the payroll for 2 more years.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildogdco View Post
    You can't just flay get rid of McCann however I can see him taking a Tim Hudson type deal. Tim was due 12M in 2010 (option year) and he opted to take a pay cut (9M) for 3 guarantied years (2010, 2011, 2012) with a 9M option for 2013. I could dig McCann at 7ish Mil for the next 3 years (if he gets healthy) Thoughts
    I like this idea. If he takes a cut, I'm up for that. If he can come back healthy we'd have a bargain and be able to use monies elsewhere. But I also like the idea of getting A.J......
    Last edited by Getting UGGLA; 10-11-2012 at 11:41 AM.
    1991 Lost WS to Twins 4-3
    1992 Lost WS to Blue Jays 4-2
    1993 Lost NLCS to Phillies 4-2
    1996 Lost WS to Yankees 4-2 (led 2-0)
    1997 Lost NLCS to Marlins 4-2
    1998 Lost NLCS to Padres 4-2
    1999 Lost WS 4-0 to Yankees
    2000 Lost NLDS 3-0 to Cardinals
    2001 Lost NLCS to Diamondbacks 4-1
    2002 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Giants
    2003 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Cubs
    2004 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Astros
    2005 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Astros
    2010 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Giants
    2012 Lost NLWC 1-0 to Cardinals
    2013 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Dodgers

  6. #96
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    I just don't think Mac can hold up behind the plate. He needs to go to the AL where he can DH half his games and get back to being the .900 OPS hitter he can be.

    Also I don't know who is going to give Hamilton big money, but I'm glad we aren't going to be in that picture.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by HickCaesar View Post
    I just don't think Mac can hold up behind the plate. He needs to go to the AL where he can DH half his games and get back to being the .900 OPS hitter he can be.

    Also I don't know who is going to give Hamilton big money, but I'm glad we aren't going to be in that picture.
    You might be surprised about Hamilton.....At least I hope you are.
    1991 Lost WS to Twins 4-3
    1992 Lost WS to Blue Jays 4-2
    1993 Lost NLCS to Phillies 4-2
    1996 Lost WS to Yankees 4-2 (led 2-0)
    1997 Lost NLCS to Marlins 4-2
    1998 Lost NLCS to Padres 4-2
    1999 Lost WS 4-0 to Yankees
    2000 Lost NLDS 3-0 to Cardinals
    2001 Lost NLCS to Diamondbacks 4-1
    2002 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Giants
    2003 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Cubs
    2004 Lost NLDS 3-2 to Astros
    2005 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Astros
    2010 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Giants
    2012 Lost NLWC 1-0 to Cardinals
    2013 Lost NLDS 3-1 to Dodgers

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by HickCaesar View Post
    I just don't think Mac can hold up behind the plate. He needs to go to the AL where he can DH half his games and get back to being the .900 OPS hitter he can be.
    I agree.... ANd I think Mac may even know that as he has talked about moving to other positions as his career progresses in interviews. Guys have to remember we are still a mid market team despite being flush with a little cash right now. If Mac has a bad season, we likely won't pay the FA dollar to keep him and he walks. If he has a great season we won't be able to affoard him and he walks. So either way I see him walking if he doesn't sign an ext this winter and if you are the Braves why would you do that after a down season and a half? Either way I think a trade is best.

    Also I don't know who is going to give Hamilton big money, but I'm glad we aren't going to be in that picture.
    I know fans want him and he is an exceptional elite talent when he is right. And he adds to another problem we already have.... A lefty that doesn't hit lefty's as well as he hits righty's. While he doesn't struggle as much as Jason or Freeman.... He's not nearly the beast he is against RH pitching. SO teams would still yet again line their LH rotation up against us........


    However with the Braves being flushed with Cash if it becomes like what it was for Carlos and the price drops dramaticly and the 20 mil is just not there ( ala Beltran) and it get's down to the 13-18 per range over 3 seasons, it would not surprise me for the Braves to get qute and get into it. However I do not expect for it to drop below 20 per over 5.
    But IF it did they could do it on a short term contract but they would then need a RH lead-off player to stack the line-up the way F-gon likes it, they would also need Uggla to wake-up in a major way.

    Upton
    Heyward
    Prado
    Hamilton
    Uggla
    Freeman
    Simmons
    McCann

    on second thought...... you may still be able to go after Span in trade and go vs RH

    Span
    Prado
    Heyward
    Hamilton
    Uggla
    Freeman
    Simmons
    Mac
    and against LH
    Simmons
    Heyward
    Prado
    Hamilton
    Uggla
    Freeman
    Ross
    Span

    Would be exciting..... But I think as of now it's a pipe dream. A lot of things would have to happen for this to come true. A LOT!
    Last edited by SB75; 10-11-2012 at 07:21 PM.

  9. #99
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    ^^If McCann has a good year in 2013 let's say like 2011 .270/.351/.466 4.1 WAR. That looks almost exactly the year Montero had when signing a 60 millions extention for 5 years, so McCann could ask for something like that. I think we can afford 12 millions a year for B-Mac, that's what we are going to pay him this year anyway. The question is, will you give McCann that contract? (assuming he has a year like the one i just pointed out).

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    ^^If McCann has a good year in 2013 let's say like 2011 .270/.351/.466 4.1 WAR. That looks almost exactly the year Montero had when signing a 60 millions extention for 5 years, so McCann could ask for something like that. I think we can afford 12 millions a year for B-Mac, that's what we are going to pay him this year anyway. The question is, will you give McCann that contract? (assuming he has a year like the one i just pointed out).
    IDK man.... Mac been beat-up really good over the last year plus and he wasn't elite defensively to start with. He'll be 30 already going in to the 2014 season. That' a lot of age on a catcher that wan't a 5 year deal, who's already not great defensively. I think i would pass..... But in that thinking I just listed CB would have to make a few strides..... If CB doesn't make those strides, it get's iffy and the Braves may over commit.

  11. #101
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    David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution outlines what he would do with the Braves this winter, a list that includes extending Martin Prado and installing him at third base, trading for Josh Willingham or signing a free agent outfielder like Nick Swisher or Cody Ross, picking up Brian McCann's option and letting Michael Bourn in favor of signing a cheaper center field option in Angel Pagan.
    If we traded for Willingham (2/14 left) we could probably still afford Bourn. That would be a nice lineup but Willingham now reminds a little too much of Uggla. If the prospects aren't too much I would still pull the trigger but be aware he's an over 30 slugger.


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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATL#22 View Post
    If we traded for Willingham (2/14 left) we could probably still afford Bourn. That would be a nice lineup but Willingham now reminds a little too much of Uggla. If the prospects aren't too much I would still pull the trigger but be aware he's an over 30 slugger.
    The asking price for Willingham won't be low, we may have to part with Delgado+ in a deal for him.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    The asking price for Willingham won't be low, we may have to part with Delgado+ in a deal for him.
    Wouldn't be a fan of that... at all
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  14. #104
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    willingham would not be a good fit for two reasons he had a career year last year for his age and the most important if braves scouts thought he was a good fit braves would have signed him instead of the twins so that tells me braves scouts are not high on him

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcg View Post
    willingham would not be a good fit for two reasons he had a career year last year for his age and the most important if braves scouts thought he was a good fit braves would have signed him instead of the twins so that tells me braves scouts are not high on him
    Eh I don't think we had money to sign him last year. I know he's been on our radar for awhile but, like beldugo said, the asking price will be high.


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