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Thread: Skinny Swag

  1. #1
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    Skinny Swag

    I know Dee was talked about as much as anybody this past season, but this is the off season for us, and all of us have our own ideas on how to make 2013 better.

    That being said, my personal opinion of Dee is that he does not know how to play this game at the big league level whatsoever. Dee is AT BEST a 2-tool player....baserunning skills/speed and maybe (if he works alot on it) fielding.

    There is no debating his speed and what an incredible weapon that can be, but he refuses to utilize it when he is at the plate. Even squaring around and attempting a bunt can put the defense on their toes. He lays down a bunt with his speed so many things can happen. What he doesn't understand is how much his main asset, his speed, can change the game. He has NO clue of the strikezone, does not draw walks, and he takes his offensive problems with him to the field and was not very good with the glove this past season.

    When he is on base, all the big bats behind him see more fastballs as the pitcher is trying to get the ball faster to the plate to take a step away....infield is on their toes and hurried with him on base....there is a big hole between 1b and 2b....so many things change when a guy with speed is on base.....why he does not get that is why I personally feel that he is nowhere close to being a smart major league player.

    Look, maybe part of the blame falls on the shoulders of the Dodgers. Maybe they need to have Dee spend an entire winter working with Maury Wills and Brett Butler and learn how to bunt, as in learn the art of the bunt.

    I do think he has some upside if he really learns this game, but even when he was our everyday SS, I would have ranked his all around game (offense and defense) in the bottom 5 of all MLB shortstops....bottom line, he is just not a smart baseball player.

  2. #2
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    He can hit and show patience, as his career minor league numbers have shown:

    .302/.354/.387

    He hasn't been giving near enough time at the big league level to show how he'll do, Dee wasn't ranked a top 30 prospect, give him time
    #Joc2LA

  3. #3
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    But he went in to 2012 knowing he was our starting SS, and he did not spend the off season learning how to take advantage of his greatest asset. I watch as much Dodger baseball as anybody, and I would bet I saw him square around and bunt maybe 3 times before he was injured. Was I the only one who cringed everytime a routine groundball was hit to him? Maybe I am wrong here, and honestly, I hope he proves me wrong...but so far, in my opinion, Dee is not a smart player at all and based on what I saw before he got hurt, he hurt us alot more than he helped us

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    Still a young player, ups and downs expected, especially at the big league level

    Maybe Hanley can teach him how to play SS
    #Joc2LA

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    I cringed just as much when Hanley had a ball hit to him because it seemed to me that every other time he threw the ball across to 1b, it was an adventure.

    Look, I am not even so much judging his talent, it is more his baseball intelligence. I would agree a few hundred AB's is not alot to judge any ball player...but putting talent and ability aside, I cannot figure out why he never, and I mean NEVER utilized his speed.

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    **** dee ,cruz is our man !

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    My two cents

    I just wanted to throw a couple of points there on the topic of Dee Gordon. Becasue I live on the east coast I don't get to see many of the Dodger games so I don't if this is the case but first of all, if a player is not a power threat and is a very light hitter as Dee is at this time then opposing pitchers are not going to try to work the corners and pitch around him very much so it is extremely tough for him to work the count and draw walks. Secondly, when you say that you haven't seen him square around to bunt very often have you also seen where the corner infielders are playing him. In my experiences in my playing days and from watching I know that when a very speedy, light hitting batter comes to the plate the corner infielders are supposed to be so far in that they can't even think about bunting. Take away their strength and they can't hurt you. So unless he starts hitting balls down the line past the corner infielders they will continue to play him in and take away his bunting opportunities. If you watch the games and you see corner infielders playing deep and he still does not try to bunt then I definitely understand where you are coming from but I bet that is not the case. Just my two cents from an east coasat dodger fan.

  8. #8
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    Dee is going to get a healthy dose of fastballs, especially since he strikes out a lot.

    Also he will see a lot of fastballs cuz fastballs are hit back to the field harder so it'll give the infield more time to throw the ball to 1st.

    Also like the above said, he's a light hitter, he wont get pitched around.

    What he needs to work on is his throwing accuracy, just ugh, great range and glove though.

    Another thought, you dont want to bunt fastballs, it goes to the field harder, its better to bunt off speed pitches, and since he doesnt' see alot of those, he will get out alot.

    Interesting stat though, he hits .288 in high leverage situations, which is very nice., .296 late and close.

    Found a story backing up my analysis...

    http://www.baseballanalytics.org/bas...l-problem.html

    While no one expected the 5-foot-11, 160 pound Gordon to hit with authority in the majors, he's trying to avoid historic offensive lows among stolen base kings because he can't hit the fastball. Check out Gordon's slugging percentage against the heat this season, and then the league average:...

    Gordon has a .277 slugging percentage versus fastballs this season, nearly 170 points below the big league average and fourth-worst among qualified hitters:...

    So, Gordon can't hit the fastball. And pitchers are well aware: Dee has seen the 11th-highest percentage of fastballs (four-seamers and two-seamers) among qualified hitters this year:....

    Pitchers don't fool around when they throw Gordon a fastball, either. They're placing 56 percent of them within the strike zone, well above the 52 percent MLB average. Why wouldn't they pound the zone, considering the worst that can happen is a slap single the other way?

    This is how we do it! I still believe



  9. #9
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    Dee hit well in the minors. I think way too many people are making far too much over a small sample size.

    Tons of 1st or 2nd year players struggle early in their careers. What's funny is listening to the Cruz nuthuggers act like Dee will just never improve.

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    I want Dee in the minors all year or traded. The dude needs so much polishing it's sickening. A guy like him has to be good or great at a few things(below) before ever stepping onto the major league stage.
    Bunting... both sacrificing and bunting for hits. He's so subpar it's sickening.
    Stealing... I know he's superduper fast and that's the only reason he steals. Needs to master the art of it.
    Making consistant contact at the plate. He cannot strikeout nearly as much as he does.
    Defense... His range is steller and has a great arm, but he's far too error prone.
    5>2

  11. #11
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    I had high hopes for Dee after watching him at the tail end of the 2011 season. 56 games batting .304 in 224 AB. But I think the pressure of being the starting ss and also batting lead off was too much for the young kid. If Han Ram continues to play SS the only option would be to make Dee a second baseman. I think he will start the season in the minors and wait until an opportunity presents itself for him.

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    Quote: [ Another thought, you dont want to bunt fastballs, it goes to the field harder, its better to bunt off speed pitches, and since he doesnt' see alot of those, he will get out alot. ]

    Actually it is much easier to bunt fastballs because there is less spin on the ball and it is coming in straight. And good bunters can deaden the ball off the bat by pulling it back on impact so it doesn't go to the fielders harder. Good bunters prefer fastballs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Brink View Post
    Dee hit well in the minors. I think way too many people are making far too much over a small sample size.

    Tons of 1st or 2nd year players struggle early in their careers. What's funny is listening to the Cruz nuthuggers act like Dee will just never improve.
    Dee will improve in the minors or as our new second baseman. He wont be starting over Cruz though, this I promise you. I honestly dont know if Dee is ready for a stint in the majors again though. He was absolutely horrific last season. We will know more by the end of spring training.

  14. #14
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    IMO, in the end, Cruz should move to 2B, Dee to stay at SS, and Ramirez go back to 3B.
    Ramirez is terrible at SS. hide him at 3B
    Dee has the tools to be a badass SS with more seasoning.
    Cruz can play anywhere equally good already and can replace Ellis when he is done here.
    5>2

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Blue987 View Post
    Dee will improve in the minors or as our new second baseman. He wont be starting over Cruz though, this I promise you. I honestly dont know if Dee is ready for a stint in the majors again though. He was absolutely horrific last season. We will know more by the end of spring training.
    and Cruz was absolutely horrific for most of the last 12 years.

    I agree Cruz will go in to the season a starter but if he regresses(which is likely) I would be very surprised if the more highly touted Gordon didn't take his job.

    People way overrate what Cruz did anyways. He had a 753 OPS. It's not like he was mashing the ball all over the place and his OBP is terrible. He had a solid half season but people acting like he should our long term third basemen on half a season are silly.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised how awful peoples memories are at this point. It's like they completely forgot Hairston and Herrera doing similar things and then falling off the map.

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