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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Valencia

    31 50.00%
  • Las Vegas

    29 46.77%
  • GM's vote here

    2 3.23%
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Results 31 to 45 of 77
  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by roshan3ai View Post
    You still can't vote for the team you're an assistant of...
    this

  2. #32
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    I've always been a big fan of Vegas. They have balanced scoring in the starting 5 and plenty of defense to matchup with Valencia's strengths. Jrue and Bradley guarded over 1500 plays this past season and combined for 0.72 ppp. That's outrageous. Both are fantastic in the PnR. It was like this Vegas team was built to take Valencia down. I trust the combined defense of those two (starters) over the defense of Taj Gibson (bench player whose minutes have decreased each of the past two seasons). In addition, I trust Love's ability to score at a high rate over Paul's.

    I don't have time to elaborate more now but needless to say I'm going upset special here. I vote Vegas.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    They have balanced scoring in the starting 5.
    No they don't. Holiday is their go-to perimeter scorer and he's their best hope of breaking down a defense from the outside. Butler sucks offensively, Bradley doesn't provide much other than an outside shot here and there, Morrow is a cherry picker whose numbers were down last year, and Delonte West is one of the most inconsistent players in basketball. I'm not sure how you can call that balance.

  4. #34
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    Not sure who I am going to take in this one. The defense of Vegas especially in the back court cannot be over looked despite the fact that Bradley has a very small sample size to work with. Though there is no way Bradley is even a consistent threat on offense in this series. His supposed 50% shooting from beyond the arch is only on close to 1 attempt per game. Sorry that does not make you a good shooter. As far as Valencia goes, I really don't like the guys around Paul very much as I see Brook Lopez being very overrated and has an inability to defend much of anything in the post. Gibson has been a bench player for years despite his positive production but I just don't buy him being able to shore up the defensive inadequacy of Brook Lopez. Than comes Nick Young who is simply an awful starter to throw out there. His shooting percentages are awful to say the least and that was despite playing with Paul for part of the year last season.

    Thinking this one over a bit more.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mile High Champ View Post
    Not sure who I am going to take in this one. The defense of Vegas especially in the back court cannot be over looked despite the fact that Bradley has a very small sample size to work with. Though there is no way Bradley is even a consistent threat on offense in this series. His supposed 50% shooting from beyond the arch is only on close to 1 attempt per game. Sorry that does not make you a good shooter. As far as Valencia goes, I really don't like the guys around Paul very much as I see Brook Lopez being very overrated and has an inability to defend much of anything in the post. Gibson has been a bench player for years despite his positive production but I just don't buy him being able to shore up the defensive inadequacy of Brook Lopez. Than comes Nick Young who is simply an awful starter to throw out there. His shooting percentages are awful to say the least and that was despite playing with Paul for part of the year last season.

    Thinking this one over a bit more.
    Young shot 38% from deep last year on what we all know was a healthy sample size. He also finished with a TS% higher than .500. That's more than I can say for the guy who is expected to lead Vegas's perimeter offensively.

    Gibson has finished a lot of games in his Bulls career. Not being a starter doesn't mean he isn't starting caliber. I can't change your mind about Lopez being overrated since that's an opinion (although you didn't back it up with much), but he is surrounded with three high quality interior defenders in Gibson, Martin, and Stiemsma.

  6. #36
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    Kevin Love - 26ppg
    Nene Hilario - 13.7ppg
    Jrue Holiday - 13.5ppg
    Caron Butler - 12ppg
    Avery Bradley - 7.6ppg (12.3ppg as a starter)
    Anthony Morrow - 12ppg
    Delonte West - 9.6ppg

    They have 7 guys capable of averaging double digits including one who was a top 5 scorer in the NBA. How is that not balanced?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Kevin Love - 26ppg
    Nene Hilario - 13.7ppg
    Jrue Holiday - 13.5ppg
    Caron Butler - 12ppg
    Avery Bradley - 7.6ppg (12.3ppg as a starter)
    Anthony Morrow - 12ppg
    Delonte West - 9.6ppg

    They have 7 guys capable of averaging double digits including one who was a top 5 scorer in the NBA. How is that not balanced?
    That's a really elementary way of looking at it. There's capable and there's capable and efficient. If they're going to upset us, I think they need some semblance of an inside-outside offensive attack to do it. And they don't have it. Jrue Holiday is their best perimeter scorer. Seriously.

    Butler and Holiday are horribly inefficient (.501 and .496 TS% respectively) and Bradley, as mentioned previously, gives you next to nothing offensively. Morrow put up 12 points a game in New Jersey. I think that speaks for itself.

    I'm not going to pretend like they don't have a stout perimeter defense or that they wouldn't piss CP3 off at least a couple of times during this series because they do and they would, but their offense is far from balanced. They're front-loaded.

    You gave a logical reason for voting Vegas over us but I find it awfully silly for their "balanced scoring" to have been a contributing factor in your vote.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish1314 View Post
    Young shot 38% from deep last year on what we all know was a healthy sample size. He also finished with a TS% higher than .500. That's more than I can say for the guy who is expected to lead Vegas's perimeter offensively.

    Gibson has finished a lot of games in his Bulls career. Not being a starter doesn't mean he isn't starting caliber. I can't change your mind about Lopez being overrated since that's an opinion (although you didn't back it up with much), but he is surrounded with three high quality interior defenders in Gibson, Martin, and Stiemsma.
    Not true. He shot 35% last year from deep last year when he played with LA and 37% in Washington. Yes he was a decent shooter from outside but his shot selection is more than questionable. His .509 TS% is really quite terrible and that is the percentage I am alluding to. I really actually see him limiting your team because of his questionable shot selection.

    Your right Gibson has closed out a lot of games. He has been the better player over Boozer many a time, though not sure how much that is really saying. I just don't believe Gibson can protect the rim and Lopez enough to win you guys the series.

    As far Lopez, well he is overrated in my opinion. His PER has never been higher than 20 (full season) and his TS% is really quite sad for a 7'0. In 2010-11 he only had a TS% of .549. He is a terrible rebounder to say the least, he only pulled down 6 boards a game 2 years ago. His Useage % is quite high for a player that simply does not score enough. His usage has also increased every season of his career yet his offensive production stays the same. That is alarming to me.
    Last edited by Mile High Champ; 10-05-2012 at 04:25 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mile High Champ View Post
    Not true. He shot 35% last year from deep last year when he played with LA and 37% in Washington. Yes he was a decent shooter from outside but his shot selection is more than questionable. His .509 TS% is really quite terrible and that is the percentage I am alluding to. I really actually see him limiting your team because of his questionable shot selection.
    Yeah it is. It's awful. And he's a role player. Now take a second to wrap your mind how detrimental it would be to your team's offense if your premier perimeter scorer was even less efficient than that.

    That's the predicament Vegas is in with Jrue Holiday. Their best perimeter scorer is a borderline chucker with numbers like his. No balance.

    I just don't believe Gibson can protect the rim and Lopez enough to win you guys the series.
    First of all it's not just Gibson. Martin and Stiemsma off the bench are capable interior defenders.

    And secondly, what is he protecting the rim from? The constant penetration from the great Jrue Holiday? Or Caron Butler? Avery Bradley? That trio of just absurdly efficient (not) wings?

    As far Lopez, well he is overrated in my opinion. His PER has never been higher than 20 (full season) and his TS% is really quite sad for a 7'0. In 2010-11 he only had a TS% of .549. He is a terrible rebounder to say the least, he only pulled down 6 boards a game 2 years ago. His Useage % is quite high for a player that simply does not score enough. His usage has also increased every season of his career yet his offensive production stays the same. That is alarming to me.
    We haven't tried to sell Lopez as anything but our interior scorer. I think everybody knows by now what Lopez is and isn't good at so this post was mostly a waste of breath.

    And if you took the time to read our write-up, you'd see in that in the near 30 games a healthy Lopez played with Deron Williams (by far the best distributor he's played with in real life), he put up career numbers in scoring on excellent efficiency. Playing with Paul would help him that much more.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish1314 View Post
    First of all it's not just Gibson. Martin and Stiemsma off the bench are capable interior defenders.
    I really hope Martin and Sitemsma are not seeing big minutes in this series.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish1314 View Post
    We haven't tried to sell Lopez as anything but our interior scorer. I think everybody knows by now what Lopez is and isn't good at so this post was mostly a waste of breath.

    And if you took the time to read our write-up, you'd see in that in the near 30 games a healthy Lopez played with Deron Williams (by far the best distributor he's played with in real life), he put up career numbers in scoring on excellent efficiency. Playing with Paul would help him that much more.
    Of course I read your write up but a 30 game sample size is far too small for a player to get a good idea of his production. This is my problem with Avery Bradley and I just don't buy it with Lopez at this point.

    Of course I read the write up CF, You know I would take the time to do it.

  11. #41
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    In the end the Chris Paul Factor swayed me to take Valencia (was very close). You guys both did a good job with your teams.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish1314 View Post
    That's a really elementary way of looking at it. There's capable and there's capable and efficient. If they're going to upset us, I think they need some semblance of an inside-outside offensive attack to do it. And they don't have it. Jrue Holiday is their best perimeter scorer. Seriously.

    Butler and Holiday are horribly inefficient (.501 and .496 TS% respectively) and Bradley, as mentioned previously, gives you next to nothing offensively. Morrow put up 12 points a game in New Jersey. I think that speaks for itself.

    I'm not going to pretend like they don't have a stout perimeter defense or that they wouldn't piss CP3 off at least a couple of times during this series because they do and they would, but their offense is far from balanced. They're front-loaded.

    You gave a logical reason for voting Vegas over us but I find it awfully silly for their "balanced scoring" to have been a contributing factor in your vote.
    You make it seem like Jrue Holiday makes or breaks this series for them. The more you keep pounding that point into the ground the less significant it seems. The Sixers had a lot of success this season with him as their #2 scorer! Why? Because he's so talented defensively and they had other plays to carry the scoring load. They had multiple players who could score 20 on a given night. I find it hard to criticize Vegas for "lack of effecient scoring" when their #1 and #2 options are highly effecient. Kevin Love and Nene have both proven to be able to score at a high rate of effeciency and they would carry the load. Avery Bradley is also effecient. When their overall defense is this talented, Jrue's TS% hovering around 50% as their 3rd/4th option seems like a stretch to harp on so consistently. More alarming to me is the thought of your team functioning with Chris Paul "being pissed off" in this series.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mile High Champ View Post
    In the end the Chris Paul Factor swayed me to take Valencia (was very close). You guys both did a good job with your teams.
    If Jrue and Bradley isn't enough to slow down the "Chris Paul Factor" then I honestly don't see how Valencia can lose.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish1314 View Post
    Can't really disagree with you on that.



    Taj's acumen defensively is just as impressive, if not more so, than Jrue's or Bradley's. And we have three high quality interior defenders at our disposal, all with the mobility to challenge Love as far out as the three point line.
    Not denying that Taj is a great defender but I do believe. It's much more difficult to contain Love's offense than it is to contain Paul.

    Love even against Taj and Chicago's stout defense with Thibs still put up 20 a game and 13.5 RPG in 36 min.This is going back to when Love was just average as well. That's another point that hasn't been addressed. How is Valencia going to rebound against one of the top rebounders in the league while having a terrible rebounding center and a average at best rebounding PF.

    Who are these interior defenders? Martin blows. steam? Sure ing him in we'll foul him out in 10 minutes and we'll take those FT's.
    Btw, Love shot 42% against Gibson.
    Your argument that you have better defenders on Paul than we have on Love is strictly opinion. And don't turn to Synergy as the end-all of defensive metrics like people have suddenly started doing, because that's not what it is.
    So when I make a claim its an opinion and doesn't count, and then if I use stats that's not ok too? Ummm



    Jrue Holiday and Avery Bradley aren't exactly Gary Payton's children either.

    They are easily near the top of the league.

    The defense of Jrue and Avery? I actually outlined in the write-up why that won't work. Plus if Paul got his against Tony Allen and Mike Conley and that pitbull of a defense the Grizzlies are sportinsg, I don't know what you really expect to happen. Superstars like Paul who have tasted the physicality of the playoffs multiple times are jgoing to get theirs.
    Allen's amazing and Conley is good but I like the athleticism of Jrue and Avery a bit more to give Paul trouble.

    Gallo does look like he can break D down at times but he's yet to truly prove he can take Over a game like that he's had over 30 points a game once in his career and that was an OT game. To say he can take over a series is idealistic to say the least will Say more later

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mile High Champ View Post
    In the end the Chris Paul Factor swayed me to take Valencia (was very close). You guys both did a good job with your teams.
    Chris paul factor? Valencia has clearly said they would have Danilo Gallinari be ther hall handler and primary player. Danilo Gallanari leading a team are you kidding me?

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