M's Offseason Discussion

[jej]

I didnt say we would get both. I said if we were gonna go after to players they are much better than Choo and Cabrera?

And my trade ideas? Mine included our #2 and 3 specs, a mid rotation starter and a couple more pieces. You wanted a top SS with good offense and great D, and a solid hitter for a mid rotation starter, defense only SS and a bullpen arm. Cmon dude.

I dont see whats so bad about Paxton Vargas and Smoak+ for butler either like you are insinuating. Much better than your suggestion.

[Rain City]

Choo wont get paid like a platoon player. He will cost what an every day hitter costs both in trade and contract. Doesnt make sense to me.

We arent gonna get where we need to be with platoon players.

you dont know what you are talking about here.

first of all you are saying how bad choo is against leftys than claiming he will get pd for more than hes worth ... just say you dont like choo instead of slanting everything to match your opinion.

there can be an art to platooning positions, lots of great teams do it, Yankees have platooned 2 and sometimes 3 positions at times throughout the years.

[jej]

He is bad against lefties. Since when do people always get paid how they deserve to be?

Ethier is a platoon player too, but he got 5/85. I do know what Im talking about, you dont.

Im not slanting anything. I am saying what is true. It happens all the time. I have no problem with platoons, but I dont want to pay a platoon player like a full timer, and thats what will happen.

[Rain City]

if we could get choo and cabrera for vargas, franklin, paxton that seems accurate for what the market is for offense, granted i think we'd need another future big league spec in the deal.... we'd need to sign another SP in FA as well.

gordon/butler/myers starts with walker+... i can safely insinuate that by following the rumors.

[jej]

What rumors? I havent heard anything about it being Walker only. If thats what they want, then good luck ever getting anything back. Especially Butler.

Vargas Walker and Paxton is what I said, not you. You had Vargas Ryan and Capps, then criticized what I said

[Rain City]

everybody knows KC and Ms have talked extensively about trading offense for pitching and KC have gone on to sign 2 FA SPs. i insinuate that they were not willing to deal for vargas, so hes not a chip to them anymore, if they want another SP there are still alot left in FA that'll be cheaper than vargas (KCs MO seems to be sign crappy SPs).

obviously walker has more value than paxton/hultzen... especially for us since we are seemingly deeper with LHP, so you can assume we have dangled them plenty to KC (actually thats been reported).

lets face it even the highest ceiling of franklin/miller doesnt really hold a candle to what gordon/butler are doing right now.

you cant just throw out a deal that looks good to you and expect KC to jump on it, i just think your trade ideas w/ them are a month old.

im trying to start conversation about Cleveland bc we talked with KC plenty and nothing has happened, doesnt mean that something could come up again as the off season unfolds but we need look at other options while we can.

Looking at Cleveland's roster they look pretty bare in the OF if you take Choo away and we dont have OF to trade away. actually they look bare everywhere, hard to speculate what the needs are but maybe dealing multiple pieces they like we can get choo/cabrera, id like to try to get both!

[jej]

You contradict yourself hard man. Once again, how can you criticize my idea when yours was Vargas, Ryan (both on one year deals) and a reliever for an All Star SS and solid RF?

Then you go on to say how they are bare in the outfield, yet you still think they woul trade Choo for that package?

Trades arent as easy as you think. Just cause we arent hearing rumors doesnt mean we arent talking. If anything it means the opposite. We never know these trades are coming. Ever.

Its only November. We got 3+ months left to go. Be patient, dont expect everything to happen within the first month of the offseason

[Iansnightout]

Choo wont get paid like a platoon player. He will cost what an every day hitter costs both in trade and contract. Doesnt make sense to me.

We arent gonna get where we need to be with platoon players.

Choo starts 75% of the time.

I have zero issue playing him strictly against right handers. Platoon bats can be very valuable.

Ethier got paid because he faces a vast majority of right handed pitchers. Just like Choo will.

Look at guys who take against lefty pitchers. What do they get? Gomes just got 2/$10M. He has nearly a .900 OPS vs. lefties.

[jej]

I didnt say I was against platoons. Read the first sentence. He wont get paid like a platoon player.

[Iansnightout]

I didnt say I was against platoons. Read the first sentence. He wont get paid like a platoon player.

Your last sentence seems like you're against platoons.

Why won't we get anywhere with a platoon? The only downside is the extra roster spot. But Wells can play any position in the OF, so him platooning with Choo would be just fine.

Personally, if I can get .850+ OPS from one guy and .900 from another, I see no issue. That's a solid hitter. One you'd pay big money for. We'd just be paying two.

[Rain City]

ethier is a bad comparison of what choo is going to get on the market bc of how the dodgers are spending.... i can see the yanks possibly giving him an aggressive contract bc that is what they do with players they want but i think its offbase to assume choo is going to be overpaid unless you just dont like the guy. choo is a very common name thrown around as a potential acquisition.

[jej]

I didnt say he would get as much. You acted as though its crazy to think he may be overpayed, when a similar thing just happened. His overall numbers look good, but he cant hit lefties.

Platoons are fine as long as we arent paying the guy for 162 games of that production when we get 115.

Im not sure we would pursue Cabrera too, and Choo alone isnt enough. Id still like Swisher as well. But then we may get into the area where we arent willing to pay them both. $14/year for Swisher and $9/year for Choo.

I think sometimes people assume that how much we can spend is = to what we will spend, and we have seen that that isnt true

[Rain City]

You contradict yourself hard man. Once again, how can you criticize my idea when yours was Vargas, Ryan (both on one year deals) and a reliever for an All Star SS and solid RF?

Then you go on to say how they are bare in the outfield, yet you still think they woul trade Choo for that package?

Trades arent as easy as you think. Just cause we arent hearing rumors doesnt mean we arent talking. If anything it means the opposite. We never know these trades are coming. Ever.

Its only November. We got 3+ months left to go. Be patient, dont expect everything to happen within the first month of the offseason

wrong.

i threw around some names before i really glanced at their roster, admitted that it'd prolly take more than vargas, ryan, capps/pryor... prolly franklin for ryan, thats if they even like vargas to begin with.

i really have no gauge of what it'll take to get choo and cabrera (they have so many needs). i heard reports that cabrera was a centerpiece for a upton deal but those have been shelved... id love for the Ms to find out to and get our new leadoff and cleanup guy.

[jej]

Wait, didnt I just get **** for asking Drew about a proposal that wasnt good enough?

Why ask something if you know its not enough?

[drew_ellis_23]

KC wants pitching, but also just added Santana, and resigned Guthrie. They are not going to trade two bats. Our best bet is Butler. They might trade Gordon but I bet they don't. They need him more than Butler. On another note, Miami is already shopping Escobar. What do you guys think about getting him for SS for the short term over Ryan? Bet he would be cheap. Esmil would probably be enough. They want cheap mlb ready players, and need pitching after losing 2/5 of their rotation and they are still shopping Nolasco too so that will be 3 SP's gone.