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  1. #916
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    ive done ALOT, been to impatient, outpatient... now i am one of the most fit people that i know... about the same age as josh. ive always been a bit of a freak when it came to drinking/drug prowess as well as physical speed and endurance. but josh is super-human physically.

    you dont understand bc the only perspective you have is your health book, but his past drug history no longer affects him physically, mentally it still does a great deal.

  2. #917
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    Yea i would disagree with you here maybe if he just had a alcohol problem but depending on the drug it could be bad for you long term.

    I like the idea of signing him to a 4-5 year deal as Ian suggested but beyond that i wouldn't be thrilled and if we were going to give out some monster contract like that Fielder would of been a better fit.
    Last edited by NateyB24; 11-18-2012 at 03:20 AM.

  3. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24 View Post
    Yea i would disagree with you here maybe if he just had a alcohol problem but depending on the drug it could be bad for you long term.

    I like the idea of signing him to a 4-5 year deal as Ian suggested but beyond that i wouldn't be thrilled and if we were going to give out some monster contract like that Fielder would of been a better fit.
    im talking about the context of the next 5-6 years, very unlikely his past drug use will affect him physically, it hasnt the past 5, its all been mental or injury from a hard play with josh.

    in the long term, 20+ years they may find his organs are not as good of shape as the average man his age, maybe better, everyones different.

    i dont think its a matter of how much $ we throw him (read the reports), he isnt seriously negotiating with SEA, kinda like prince, doesnt look like he wants to play here, his talks with us is prolly just for leverage for another team.
    Last edited by Rain City; 11-18-2012 at 11:41 AM.

  4. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain City View Post
    im talking about the context of the next 5-6 years, very unlikely his past drug use will affect him physically, it hasnt the past 5, its all been mental or injury from a hard play with josh.

    in the long term, 20+ years they may find his organs are not as good of shape as the average man his age, maybe better, everyones different.

    i dont think its a matter of how much $ we throw him (read the reports), he isnt seriously negotiating with SEA, kinda like prince, doesnt look like he wants to play here, his talks with us is prolly just for leverage for another team.
    I don't think thats the case at all our ownership just didn't want to pay Prince you offer a guy enough money he will play for you even if you are located in the corner of the map far away.

  5. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain City View Post
    im talking about the context of the next 5-6 years, very unlikely his past drug use will affect him physically, it hasnt the past 5, its all been mental or injury from a hard play with josh.

    in the long term, 20+ years they may find his organs are not as good of shape as the average man his age, maybe better, everyones different.

    i dont think its a matter of how much $ we throw him (read the reports), he isnt seriously negotiating with SEA, kinda like prince, doesnt look like he wants to play here, his talks with us is prolly just for leverage for another team.
    There's a HUGE difference between an every day fella and an athlete at an elite level. The smallest things can affect an athlete whereas that same small thing would go unnoticed for someone who is not in tip-top shape.

    Sorry, but saying drug use hasn't negatively affected someone's body is pretty naive. Especially when they're one of the more freakish athletes out there.

    Who knows, he could have been the best player ever if not for his drug use.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24 View Post
    I don't think thats the case at all our ownership just didn't want to pay Prince you offer a guy enough money he will play for you even if you are located in the corner of the map far away.
    I don't think your statement is accurate either. The Mariners made an offer to Prince, they just didn't go over the top like Detroit did and it's probably for the best. It happens every year. They make offers and the player turns them down to go to a contending team for a LOT of money. Beltre did it the year before.
    I'm In.



  6. #921
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    bottom line, signs are josh doesnt want to consider us, we would have to wait it out with him than overbid everyone enough to give him the desire to come to Seattle.

    ive been gung ho about getting him, and out of guys on the market hes the surest way to help fix our offense, but it aint in the cards. hope im proven wrong, but im moving on from it.

  7. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain City View Post
    bottom line, signs are josh doesnt want to consider us, we would have to wait it out with him than overbid everyone enough to give him the desire to come to Seattle.

    ive been gung ho about getting him, and out of guys on the market hes the surest way to help fix our offense, but it aint in the cards. hope im proven wrong, but im moving on from it.
    I've not seen one thing that tells me he doesn't want to consider Seattle. Where are you seeing that?
    I'm In.



  8. #923
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    Im for Swisher/Pagan and Butler.

    Pagan
    Jaso
    Montero
    Butler
    Seager
    Ackley
    Saunders
    Guti
    Ryan

    Ackley
    Jaso
    Montero
    Butler
    Swisher
    Seager
    Saunders
    Guti
    Ryan

    Take your pick.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  9. #924
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    I really don't want Butler in the field. He's awful.
    I'm In.



  10. #925
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    As I've said, if we get him, they have a plan for Montero. They think about this stuff too.

    Plus we had the best d in the league last year. I can take one hit at a unimportant position for that kind of offense. I really don't think he is THAT awful either. Not good, but his UZR is consistently around -2--3. Not good, but with his bat I think makes up for it.

    I'm not worried.
    Last edited by jej; 11-18-2012 at 04:51 PM.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  11. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iansnightout View Post
    Am I the only one who doesn't give two ***** about his drug history?
    I care not.

  12. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iansnightout View Post
    I really don't want Butler in the field. He's awful.
    Agreed. A deal for Butler gives the M's two primary DH's.

    If I'm doing a deal with KC that will cost me a big three pitcher, I want Gordon and Moustakas. If they would take Hultzen/Paxton, Ackley plus choice of reliever, I think it works for the M's.

    In that case, M's get a proven outfielder that rakes and actually plays a position and an honest-to-goodness 3B. Seager puts up good numbers for a 2B (better numbers than Ack) and it seems to be his more natural position. The trade doesn't hurt the M's much since we trade from depth.

    KC may be reluctant to give up Moustakas but since their next top prospect is an OF (Wil Myers) they don't lose much there and they get three positions where they need help.

  13. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iansnightout View Post
    I've not seen one thing that tells me he doesn't want to consider Seattle. Where are you seeing that?
    part of its assumption but based on facts, ms were one of the first teams to formally speak to hamilton in FA and didnt go far. GMZ has the attitude to go on w/out him. also just seems very similar to prince fielder last winter.

  14. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepSouthSound View Post
    Agreed. A deal for Butler gives the M's two primary DH's.

    If I'm doing a deal with KC that will cost me a big three pitcher, I want Gordon and Moustakas. If they would take Hultzen/Paxton, Ackley plus choice of reliever, I think it works for the M's.

    In that case, M's get a proven outfielder that rakes and actually plays a position and an honest-to-goodness 3B. Seager puts up good numbers for a 2B (better numbers than Ack) and it seems to be his more natural position. The trade doesn't hurt the M's much since we trade from depth.

    KC may be reluctant to give up Moustakas but since their next top prospect is an OF (Wil Myers) they don't lose much there and they get three positions where they need help.
    i believe in all your saying but you have to hope KC really likes ackley, i think to get gordon and moustakas is going to be more expensive.

  15. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepSouthSound View Post
    Agreed. A deal for Butler gives the M's two primary DH's.

    If I'm doing a deal with KC that will cost me a big three pitcher, I want Gordon and Moustakas. If they would take Hultzen/Paxton, Ackley plus choice of reliever, I think it works for the M's.

    In that case, M's get a proven outfielder that rakes and actually plays a position and an honest-to-goodness 3B. Seager puts up good numbers for a 2B (better numbers than Ack) and it seems to be his more natural position. The trade doesn't hurt the M's much since we trade from depth.

    KC may be reluctant to give up Moustakas but since their next top prospect is an OF (Wil Myers) they don't lose much there and they get three positions where they need help.
    Seager: .259/.316/.423 --.321 wOBA -- 108 wRC+, 20 HR

    Moose: .242/.296/.412 --.305 wOBA -- 90 wRC+, 20 HR

    Moose really isnt an upgrade for us over Ackley for the future, both are unproven (Ackley was better in 2011 tho).

    Plus theres no nay they take that anyway.

    Poor defense at 1st really doesnt matter than much. We were the best defense in the league last year. A drop at first isnt a big deal, especially when you get one of the better hitters in the AL.

    You need a balance. We obviously cant win with an elite D, good pitching and bottom of the pile offense. But we can with still elite D, good/great pitching and at least a middle of the pack offense
    Last edited by jej; 11-18-2012 at 06:07 PM.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


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