M's Offseason Discussion

[baseball_is_lif]

Ross would be an OK option. Not really much of a power bat tho either. Kind of a right handed, slightly worse version of Choo.

Not the biggest fan of Choo. He's 30 and has only played 100 games in a season 3 times:

2009: 156
2010: 144
2012: 155

He also has only hit 20+ HR's in season twice: 20 in '09 & 22 in 10'.

Frankly, I really don't think you're getting that much with more with Choo:

Choo 2012: .283/.373/.441 wOBA .360
Ross 2012: .267/.326/.481 wOBA .341

And in that trade proposal for Choo, the M's give up Paxton AND sign Choo for $34 million for 3 years (essentially $45 for 4 with arbitration).

In that scenario the M's are paying about $11 million a year for a player I'm not even sure is better than Ross - who should cost close to half that amount. Throw in the the loss of Paxton (for a player we shouldn't have ever given up in the first place), and I'd rather spend money on Ross.

So, slightly worse might be right. But if he costs $4 or $5 million less a year, isn't that worth it?

[jej]

This is Ross's first good year.
He was good on the playoffs, but his best year prior to 12 was 2008: .345 wOBA 106 wRC+.
He is a year older than Choo.

And he was HORRENDOUS away from Fenway. His wOBA drops from .386 to .292, and his wRC+ from 142 to 77. Imagine him in Safeco.

Choo has surpassed Cody's best years multiple times.

And keep in mind, Choo came over in 2005 when he was 23. He didnt get significant time until 2008. And that wasnt an injury shortened year. He didnt get called up until May 31st.

So he has only had one significant injury in his career, and it was a thumb injury, which usually doesnt linger or affect you in the future.

So yes, in my opinion, the extra $4 million/year we spend on Choo is worth it. He is the better hitter, which is what we need. We have the money. We are only at $71 million with my plan.

[jej]

Just for comparison, Choo's splits:

Home: .367 wOBA, 136 wRC+, 8 HR
Away: .353 wOBA, 127 wRC+, 8 HR

[Rain City]

we are looking for a MOTO bat.... guys like choo, ross, gomes, swisher, melky (not on PEDs)... THese guys are MOTO bats on 3rd or 4th place teams.

Get Hamilton!!! I know hes got the question marks, i think they actually work in our favor to bring his price down, he is a legit MOTO bat...

Hamilton's presence alone benefits our young players (cant say that about other options).... Argue however you want but Hamilton's talent is sooooo faaaar above the other guys', i dont care that he assisted in Texas' collapse, he also led them to their first 2 WS!!!! An MVP, batting champ, 43 HRs, ALCS MVP, + RF.

And hes going to have a grudge vs Texas! A division rival! It has great stuff written all over it!!

I think he will stay an AS caliber bat for at least 3 years, and after that will have Jesus, Ack, ZUnino entering their prime, and hamilton can still be a good complementary guy hitting 5 or 6 prolly, not a waste at all, guys with his talent still produce at 35-38, especially if you can slide to DH.

[Rain City]

Gomes brings more offensively than Guti tho. We have the best defense in the league without Guti. We need offense. Guti could platoon with Hafner until Montero is ready.

IMO, Montero would benefit from AAA. He isnt at the stage where anything less than MLB at bats hurt. Plus he needs to learn the D.

i agree that Ms need, or should i say are desperate for offense, even if we need to sacrafice defensively, but Montero to triple A , even if he underachieved, he was one of our best hitters last year, and hes 22.... THat is a plan to regress offensively, and to learn 1B? He can learn that now and through ST.... And ease in to it and be fine, 1b is the least difficult position to pick up by far.

THe more i think about it, Montero needs to move to 1b now, and i think its fair to criticize he hasnt already been getting his feet wet.....With his bat and future, he shouldnt be molded to be a DH with all the IL games, and ZUninio is coming up to play C...

Unless they think they are going to platoon them at C and DH with Z doing bulk of C and them getting off days in IL.... That sounds unrealistic, and trying to be cheap with roster spots, they are better off moving montero to 1b and be a 3rd option C when needed.

[Boozerguy47]

Not sure about Hamilton, but I would like the look of...

-Ackley 2B
-Guti CF
-Hamilton LF
-Montero DH
-Seager/Smoak 3B/1B
-Smoak/Seager 1B/3B
-Jaso C (Zunino maybe by July?)
-Saunders RF
-Ryan SS

[jej]

i agree that Ms need, or should i say are desperate for offense, even if we need to sacrafice defensively, but Montero to triple A , even if he underachieved, he was one of our best hitters last year, and hes 22.... THat is a plan to regress offensively, and to learn 1B? He can learn that now and through ST.... And ease in to it and be fine, 1b is the least difficult position to pick up by far.

THe more i think about it, Montero needs to move to 1b now, and i think its fair to criticize he hasnt already been getting his feet wet.....With his bat and future, he shouldnt be molded to be a DH with all the IL games, and ZUninio is coming up to play C...

Unless they think they are going to platoon them at C and DH with Z doing bulk of C and them getting off days in IL.... That sounds unrealistic, and trying to be cheap with roster spots, they are better off moving montero to 1b and be a 3rd option C when needed.

He can't hit right handed pitching for ****. Weren't you one of the people who wanted him sent down during the year?

Like you said, he is only 22. A couple months in AAA to iron things out and get real game experience at 1st would be a big help. Dave thought so too.

As for Swisher not bring a MOTO bat, I disagree. But if he is going to cost us $100 mill too (albeit at much less per year than Hamilton), he isn't worth it to me. Lets go get Hamilton if we want to go spend like that.

[jej]

Not sure about Hamilton, but I would like the look of...

-Ackley 2B
-Guti CF
-Hamilton LF
-Montero DH
-Seager/Smoak 3B/1B
-Smoak/Seager 1B/3B
-Jaso C (Zunino maybe by July?)
-Saunders RF
-Ryan SS

Yum. The more I think about it, the less teams I are going hard after Ham. All I can think of that MIGHT are: Mariners, Red Sox, Phillies, Braves, Orioles, Nats.

And all of those are mights that are contingent on other players staying/going.

Once Zunino is up and playing full time, I could see a Smoak/Jaso platoon, assuming Smoak isn't a star and Jaso plays like he did this year.

That's why I was against us getting a 1st baseman to replace Smoak, cause all it does is take time away from a solid hitter in Jaso, and we still run out the Wells/Thames platoon in the OF. If we are gonna upgrade, it should be in RF/LF.

[Rain City]

He can't hit right handed pitching for ****. Weren't you one of the people who wanted him sent down during the year?

Like you said, he is only 22. A couple months in AAA to iron things out and get real game experience at 1st would be a big help. Dave thought so too.

As for Swisher not bring a MOTO bat, I disagree. But if he is going to cost us $100 mill too (albeit at much less per year than Hamilton), he isn't worth it to me. Lets go get Hamilton if we want to go spend like that.

i have griped plenty about montero chasing pitches but never thought he should go down, he did enough to keep his job,.... That being said if he sucks in ST and guys are playing better, than sure start him there, i think it'd be very disappointing if hes not an OD starter, hopefully starting now, into ST, and by the end of next year he is comfortable enough to be a full time 1b and his bat catches us.

[jej]

i have griped plenty about montero chasing pitches but never thought he should go down, he did enough to keep his job,.... That being said if he sucks in ST and guys are playing better, than sure start him there, i think it'd be very disappointing if hes not an OD starter, hopefully starting now, into ST, and by the end of next year he is comfortable enough to be a full time 1b and his bat catches us.

If Pentland replaces Chambliss, then he should stay up. But if he is still in AAA, I want him to work with Montero. Look at the surge guys like Carp, Wells and Smoak got after going down. Obviously they couldnt make it stick, but he knows what's up.

Jesus vs LHP: .356 wOBA
Vs RHP: .264 wOBA

That needs to change somehow.

[bling24]

I know its been a while, and if I ruffle a few feathers, that is not my intention. We need bats. We have all been patient and waiting for our farm system to show up, and we are starting to see evidence that that is working. Now its time to make the "big bat" splash. I would love for Hamilton to be on this team. He would make a lot of sense.

[jej]

No feathers ruffled. Welcome back.

[Iansnightout]

I can't see it happening. I almost guarantee they cut salary again.

[Rain City]

I can't see it happening. I almost guarantee they cut salary again.

i know, with speculation about ownership's future goals no way they go after hamilton.... what makes us think ownership is serious about competing.

The thing that does contradict is GMZ is very ambitious and i think he'd jump ship, and with felix extension talks.... that is going to be telling..... hope im just being anxious, but i can see them lowballing Felix, not getting a deal done, and than all of us stewing about paying him the $ or trade him while his value is at a peak...... The thing is, felix is going to be fair, we can extend him in the cole hamels range i believe no problem. :cry:

[drew_ellis_23]

I can't see it happening. I almost guarantee they cut salary again.

Nah, they can't possibly cut anymore LOL. If we do cut, it would be trading Carp, Vargas, and Figgins. Should be able to package those 3 with a couple specs for a good RF bat. Maybe a Upton? Get a need and trade some salary to take on salary. Better than keeping all 3 players and throwing a wad of cash at a FA to have it not work out again. I would love to have Hamilton in a Mariner uni but look how Sexson, Beltre, and Figgins worked out. Granted Beltre had little protection, and did earn his money with his glove, none of these guys hit. We pay 20 million to Hamilton and he bombs it could cost us Felix. Now if we get Felix extended before the WS like I have heard rumors about, then that would be a good sign that maybe they want him locked up so players like Hamilton might consider a long term deal here.