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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    so im assuming your for the "kansas city rebuild program", which is getting high draft picks hoping and praying that the farm system delivers the red sox from mediocrity and maybe just maybe the red sox will be competitive in 2015 at the earliest.
    That would be an incorrect assumption on your part based on what I've been writing here for some time (including today).

    We need to finish off cleaning house. We have to avoid FA deals that are not high ROI - very tough with this FA crop.

    We have some goods to deal for other things we need more, BC should be OK at these.

    We musn't blow up the farm OR buy long term high priced FA's both will make getting the hole we are in last longer.

    So, obviously we need to move in the right direction, but we should not charge ahead mindlessly. The risks are too high, the payoff too meager for 2013.

    You honestly think the red sox could afford to be uncompetitive for 2-3 more years
    Why are you trying to put words in my mouth. My map would say something like this for wins: 81, 86, 93, 95 over the next 4 years.

    We had a very productive farm in 2005-2007, relatively reasonable budgets, and we had the best pitching staff in Boston history since 1918, a very strong line-up of low budget FA, high budget FA, and good home grown players. Once the spiggot slowed down, we went on the mad FA spree - very much like the one you seem to favor, and look at where we are now?

    the main source of income for the red sox is adtvertising and the pink hats and 2-3 more years of losing would be devastating to both.
    I agree, and since I never advocated 2-3 years of losing - I have no idea of why you are lecturing me.

    Its going to be harder and harder to sign free agent elite bats and elite arms as teams are locking up players to long term contracts during there arb years. And who cares how if they signed Hamilton for 4/100 and Napoli to 3/39 if it doesnt effect there payroll flexiblity, and unless you are and investor or owner it shouldn't matter
    How much research have you done on Napoli? Did you notice in 5 out of 7 of his seasons his OPS+ has been: 107, 110, 110, 115, 120) How about the fact that he's a below average defensive catcher that is aging and has suffered injuries? BRS fans are wild on the guy because he has brained BRS pitching in Fenway. If I could get the guy for 3 years for $18M I'd be all over it, but it's liable to be $27M+ for those years - no thanks.

    What about Hamilton? His D has started dropping big time, he's at best a LF now. He's got an incredibly addictive personality. Horse, booze, and god. And him going into physical decline shortly (32 in May), with some injury concerns. He's liable to be $130M for 5 years - no thanks. It's simply bad business.

    enough of defending my suggestions, what exactly is your plan? let me guess let the youngsters play and sign low salary complimentary free agents like they did in 2004(papi,millar,mueller), only problem with that is they had an elite bat(manny ramirez 8/160) in the middle of the lineup that was the driving force.
    You forgot about Ortiz.

    Let's try common sense 101. If want you want isn't available in FA and getting harder to find, you don't cut off your your top specs for mid talent players. If Ortiz and Ramirez circa 2003 can't be gotten in FA, you don't buy into high risk guys like Hamilton and pretend that they are. You do what is appropriate. You don't act like high anxiety case that has to act to cut the anxiety.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 10-08-2012 at 07:31 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackyardRounder View Post
    I would like to see the Red Sox get back to a team that emphasizes pitching, quality at bats and therefor on base percentage, and defense. I don't like the transitions we made to inpatient speedsters and all-or-nothing power hitters. Last year, we had three positions which provided a collective OBP below .300.

    SS - .272
    C - .278
    CF - .299

    SS realistically won't be addressed via free agency. Unless you consider Marco Scutaro a shortstop, there aren't any free agents at the position who have had an OBP over .325 the last two years. I would like the Red Sox to make a trade for Jamey Carroll (.343 OBP last year, .355+ OBP the previous four years versatile defensively).

    At catcher, I would like the team to spend significant money on Carlos Ruiz even though he is 33. Improving the pitching starts at the catcher position. Saltalamacchia simply is not a good defensive catcher and I have not been impressed with his game calling. Ruiz is one of the game's better defensive catchers, he's caught a very successful staff in Philadelphia and has a reputation as a good game caller and he's hit .303/.382/.458 the last two seasons while averaging over 120 games a year. We need a veteran behind the plate, not someone who's still learning on the job if we want the pitching to turn around.

    CF will most likely be improved by a healthy Jacoby Ellsbury.

    Pitching is a little more difficult. Given the state of our team, I wouldn't give up anything significant in a trade. I think Greinke's anxiety issues are overblown and if we're going to be giving out long-term contracts to starting pitchers, we should give them to younger players such as him. I would pass if he demands too much though, Jake Peavy or Dan Haren would be a nice consolation prize if they could be required on a shorter contract.

    Other than that, I think we just have to suck it up and realize this most likely is a rebuilding year and see what we can get from Lester, Buchholz and Doubront. Scott Baker would make a solid option as possible insurance. The Red Sox could even give him a shot at competing for a spot in the rotation to lure him in to signing. He'd certainly be better than Aaron Cook.

    At this point, I'd bring back Ortiz and then see what's left at first base. First basemen, or at least the quality of first basemen available this year, are a dime a dozen.
    Some good thinking here. There is an option for 2013 on Ruiz according to cots.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #93
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    Damn, $5 million club option. I don't see any reason why Philly wouldn't pick that up.

  4. #94
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    because they have 70 million tied into starting pitching. Unless they can unload Lee the Phillies don't have alot of money to work with. Don't forget there paying Howard and Utley big money as while and might need a outfielder.

  5. #95
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    [QUOTE=bagwell368;23873821]
    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSports96 View Post

    Excellent idea. I have managed at much lower levels - but these days I only fill in every now and then since I'm basically unable to get around due to ill health, but I do appreciate the vote of confidence.
    Wow, bags didn't address the rest of my argument.

    Usually bags scolds others for refusing to address other points of the argument, and now he didn't even do it. Hypocritical much?

    Don't bother responding to this if it is such a waste of your time.

  6. #96
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    Ruiz is a steal at $5 million. He was worth over $20 million last year in WAR value. If they're going to cut payroll, it would make sense to do it elsewhere.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmonster24 View Post
    because they have 70 million tied into starting pitching. Unless they can unload Lee the Phillies don't have alot of money to work with. Don't forget there paying Howard and Utley big money as while and might need a outfielder.
    $5M is chump change for that payroll. He goes no place unless they trade him for a nice haul.

    I do think the Sox should deal Salty, and we'll get the typical 34+ year old back-up with a good glove and a weak bat for this year. This is the year to see Lavarnway behind the plate for 3/5 of the season.

    They need to stop fussing with Lavarnway's game so much, his swing lost about 6 MPH off of it from last year - due in part to too much coaching input and too much anxiety on his part). His catching has gotten much better, it's at worst below average now (he's in total better then VMart when he was here). Any weakness in his game calling is easily dealt with from the bench or more time with pitchers. The guy is no dummy, and his offensive upside is top 5 AL catcher. Worst comes to worse he's a back-up catcher or DH/PH/3rd catcher. Might as well find out.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 10-09-2012 at 07:19 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSports96 View Post
    Usually bags scolds others for refusing to address other points of the argument, and now he didn't even do it. Hypocritical much?
    Nobody else seems interested in this off topic tangent. I respect the members of this board that deserve respect.

    Don't bother responding to this if it is such a waste of your time.
    No worries, I think you can go into the same bucket as yankkiller. I'll just respond when something notable/useful comes off of your pen.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 10-09-2012 at 10:23 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  9. #99
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    To bad we can't get someone like Varitek to work with Lavarnway to help his game calling

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenmonster24 View Post
    To bad we can't get someone like Varitek to work with Lavarnway to help his game calling
    Lavarnway has only caught about 600 games at catcher his whole life, and almost all of those are since 2008 (I mean all the way back to tee ball). Varitek probably had close to 600 games caught before he graduated college - certainly before he got to the Sox.

    BTW, he caught Lester as much as Shoppach this year (7 games), and had better results - .238/.312.362 - and both of them croaked Salty.

    BTW, he caught Buchholz 5 games and got these results: .233/.291/.338 - well better than Shoppach and again far far better then Salty.

    In his only start with Doubront, Lavarnway also had the lowest slash allowed compared to the other two.

    Perhaps some folks are substituting what you have heard from "them", for the reality of the situation?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Lavarnway has only caught about 600 games at catcher his whole life, and almost all of those are since 2008 (I mean all the way back to tee ball). Varitek probably had close to 600 games caught before he graduated college - certainly before he got to the Sox.

    BTW, he caught Lester as much as Shoppach this year (7 games), and had better results - .238/.312.362 - and both of them croaked Salty.

    BTW, he caught Buchholz 5 games and got these results: .233/.291/.338 - well better than Shoppach and again far far better then Salty.

    In his only start with Doubront, Lavarnway also had the lowest slash allowed compared to the other two.

    Perhaps some folks are substituting what you have heard from "them", for the reality of the situation?
    Buchholz was a mess to begin the season, and that wasnt Salty's fault.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar_RA View Post
    Buchholz was a mess to begin the season, and that wasnt Salty's fault.
    Interesting theory.

    From Aug 1st onward, Buchholz had two bad starts:

    Aug 22nd 7 ER in 5 1/3 IP

    Oct 1st 8 ER in 1 2/3 IP

    Both caught by Salty.

    ==============================

    Lavarnway GS: 05 IP: 35.2 ERA: 3.79 .233/.291/.338 tOPS+: 068

    Jarrd Salty GS: 13 IP: 75.2 ERA: 6.30 .318/.392/.543 tOPS+: 146

    Shoppach GS: 11 IP: 78.0 ERA: 3.23 .217/.281/.341 tOPS+: 065

    Shoppach caught Buchholz more than Salty did when he was here including early in the year. Look at the ERA and hitters marks.

    Salty got piped twice after Shoppach left and Lavarnway did not. Sure looks like Salty didn't do the job - in particular with Lesters stats added in as well.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    so im assuming your for the "kansas city rebuild program", which is getting high draft picks hoping and praying that the farm system delivers the red sox from mediocrity and maybe just maybe the red sox will be competitive in 2015 at the earliest.
    I doubt that the KC rebuild will be a template the Sox ever use, now or in the foreseeable future. Being more methodical with the farm, utilizing top prospects on the MLB roster rather than dealing them away for bits and pieces, and high priced talent will become more the norm, rather than what has accurred over the past few years.

    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    You honestly think the red sox could afford to be uncompetitive for 2-3 more years, the main source of income for the red sox is adtvertising and the pink hats and 2-3 more years of losing would be devastating to both.
    Could not agree more. I think they could sustain one more year of maybe not losing, but better than mediocrity, before the stones start being cast.

    It's a different generation,that is this one here and now, then when I grew up. I lived through some pretty sour patches of watching the Sox.

    To put in in context....I'm not a pink hat, I've been a fan since 76', but I did get rid of my cable tv sportspak this year, around the first week of Aug., and that is the first time in almost 10 years, that I haven't had it. I was willing drive the 3 hours to Portland to watch the AA team, before spending the $30 a month to watch the worst Red Sox team I've ever seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    Its going to be harder and harder to sign free agent elite bats and elite arms as teams are locking up players to long term contracts during there arb years.
    Monetary wise, the Sox after clearing the contract mess they had on their hands in August, should be able to be in play for most top free agents going forward. They have to be a bit more diligent in their signings I believe.( IE Carl Crawford).

    One problem they could face now and in the immediate future in regards to FA signing is players just not wanting to play or sign with Boston. Alot of bad or negativity seemed to ooze out this year. Now winning has a way of sweeping all that aside, but there has to some substance to reports...


    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    And who cares how if they signed Hamilton for 4/100 and Napoli to 3/39 if it doesnt effect there payroll flexiblity, and unless you are and investor or owner it shouldn't matter.
    The problem I see with Hamilton is the same most see. A tone of talent, but a massive head case as well. That's a ton of money to pay to an " I think so, or I hope so".

    After just getting out from under the massive contract mistakes they just made in prior years, it would be very irresponsible to jump right back into that same dilemma, especially for a guy like Hamilton with some BIG question marks IMO.

    The Sox seem committed to go with the Salty/Lavarnway combo behind the plate. Napoli doesn't offer the same value if you plan to use him primarily at 1B or DH. Now alot could happen over the off-season, and he may become more viable out of necessity, but with the current construct of this team moving forward, I don't see him in the mix, at what his cost will probably end up. I could be very wrong though.....


    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    enough of defending my suggestions, what exactly is your plan? let me guess let the youngsters play and sign low salary complimentary free agents like they did in 2004(papi,millar,mueller), only problem with that is they had an elite bat(manny ramirez 8/160) in the middle of the lineup that was the driving force.
    I think you have to try and give your top levels prospect a chance. No way you can fill a roster entirely with them and expect to compete. Allowing them the time to develop and grow and knowing when to fish or cut bait with them is key.

    The 04' Sox were in a much better better position to compete than this current team. The complimentary guys they signed were only part of the equation. Trading for Schilling was huge. This current team rather than the 04' one has huge gaping holes.
    Last edited by taffi101; 10-09-2012 at 11:50 AM.

  14. 10-09-2012, 03:10 PM
    Reason
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  15. 10-09-2012, 03:12 PM
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  16. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar_RA View Post
    Buchholz was a mess to begin the season, and that wasnt Salty's fault.
    Salty is a horrid defensive catcher, and he's not helping the rotation at all.

    Good riddance once he leaves.

  17. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSports96 View Post
    Salty is a horrid defensive catcher, and he's not helping the rotation at all.

    Good riddance once he leaves.
    Yeah im still in favor of trading him

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