2012-2013 Off-season thread.

[papipapsmanny]

We have to be smart. I would trade clay to net us something and sign Sanchez or maybe Haren

I would trade Salty, and sign a defensive C for cheap, and Napoli. Let Lavarnway, Napoli, and Defense of C, split time at C, 1B, and some DH.

Bogaerts may get to big down the road, but if he gets off to a fast start in AA he could be up by the all star break and play SS initially but that is optimistic.

[Justabitoutside]

We have to be smart. I would trade clay to net us something and sign Sanchez or maybe Haren

I don't think trading Clay gets us anything of value. Keep him & focus on the rest of the mess. Clay isn't a problem. We have too many issues, no need to create another one.

[Nomar]

We have to be smart. I would trade clay to net us something and sign Sanchez or maybe Haren

I would trade Salty, and sign a defensive C for cheap, and Napoli. Let Lavarnway, Napoli, and Defense of C, split time at C, 1B, and some DH.

Bogaerts may get to big down the road, but if he gets off to a fast start in AA he could be up by the all star break and play SS initially but that is optimistic.

I like all of it besides Napoli (id rather trade for Davis/Belt/Smoak).

Most scouts, even Mellen, think Bogaerts will have a year or two of SS in him at the MLB level. Hopefully he keeps progressing fast and that becomes true.

[ricomactaco]

We have to be smart. I would trade clay to net us something and sign Sanchez or maybe Haren

I would trade Salty, and sign a defensive C for cheap, and Napoli. Let Lavarnway, Napoli, and Defense of C, split time at C, 1B, and some DH.

Bogaerts may get to big down the road, but if he gets off to a fast start in AA he could be up by the all star break and play SS initially but that is optimistic.

That would be great if Bogaerts progresses that fast but I can see the F.O. signing S Drew this offseason. I cant say I would be thrilled but he's better than Aviles and Iglesias for now.

[BostonSports96]

You said "Lester maybe".

Yes, I did. That is not advocating to trade him, I just said it is a possibility, I gave no opinion on it.

It would take a season or three for young guys to establish themselves. So you either for moving Lester or not. You are in favor of moving Buchholz, but maybe in favor of moving Lester.

Again, I gave no opinion on whether to move Lester or not. And how am I "in favor of trading Buccholz"? I said Buccholz won't get traded, I'm against trading him.

Posting stats to argue against that is my right as a poster in good standing. If you don't like it, try facts or ignoring me

You sir brought up the stats, I just gave an opinion. I never said anything against Lester being great from 2008-2011. I never brought it up.

...but I'm sure the other posters are bored by your picayune complaints. I don't mind - outside of the waste of time that is, from more interesting matters.

If it is such a waste of time, try ignoring me. I think your the only person in PSD that cares enough to put your 2 cents into everything that is posted. With all your experience and knowledge of stats you blab about, why not applying for the Sox vacated managing job?

Whatever floats your boat.

What is the problem here? I'm just stating plain facts, just like you asked me too.

[win red sox]

Count me as not one of the red sox fan not down with the rebuild ear/bridge year.time to win Is now. We haven't made the playoffs in three years. We are the red sox.that's unacceptable.

I agree, the adtvantage of being a large market team is the ability to fill holes via free agency with elite players without sacraficing prospects. Therefore, if you can get Hamilton at 4/100 with a 5th year team option and get Napoli at 3/42 then you do it. With resigning Ortiz 2/28 and Ross 2/14 the payroll would still be only be around 150 million which would leave plenty of flexiblity to make acquisitions during the year.

cf ellsbury
2b pedroia
lf hamilton
1b Napoli
dh Ortiz
rf Ross/Kalish
3b Middlebrooks
c Lavarnway/Salty
ss Iglesias/Aviles

That is a competetive linueup. When it comes to pitching the sox should be acquiring and drafting as much high ceiling prospects as possible, pitching more than positional players is developed not bought. I see alot of posters especially in this forum stating the focus should be on 2014 or even 2015, I dont know whats supposed to happen then, unless the thinking is Matt Barnes is going to be an ace, Bogarts is going to be .900 ops guy and so on and so on. The point is no prospect is guaranteed stardom, look at Kansas city who supposedly has had one of the top farm systems for years and every year is a disappointment. I'm not saying to sign J Hamilton or Napoli, but what I am saying is that its inexcuseable, with the red sox financial resources, not to put a competitive on the field year in and year out.

[bagwell368]

I agree, the adtvantage of being a large market team is the ability to fill holes via free agency with elite players without sacraficing prospects.

Did you check the offerings? You can't possibly think we just have holes? We having gaping wounds.

Therefore, if you can get Hamilton at 4/100 with a 5th year team option and get Napoli at 3/42 then you do it.

Only if BC has a loaded gun to his temple. Terrible moves, both.

I'm not saying to sign J Hamilton or Napoli, but what I am saying is that its inexcuseable, with the red sox financial resources, not to put a competitive on the field year in and year out.

And the wisdom of experience - like Theo tried to preach here - is that sometimes it is much wiser to retreat and reload then charge ahead mindlessly. Go look at the history of English longbowmen and French knights if you don't believe it.

[bagwell368]

[QUOTE=BostonSports96;23872141]

I think your the only person in PSD that cares enough to put your 2 cents into everything that is posted. With all your experience and knowledge of stats you blab about, why not applying for the Sox vacated managing job?

Excellent idea. I have managed at much lower levels - but these days I only fill in every now and then since I'm basically unable to get around due to ill health, but I do appreciate the vote of confidence.

[Nomar]

[QUOTE=bagwell368;23873821]

Excellent idea. I have managed at much lower levels - but these days I only fill in every now and then since I'm basically unable to get around due to ill health, but I do appreciate the vote of confidence.

You actually have my vote.

Theres plenty of people out there who could be an asset to a front office, but will never have the chance because they didnt go to an ivy league school. There's hardly a such thing as a dirtdog in front offices. You wither went to Harvard or played in the MLB.

[Justabitoutside]

You have Barnes, Bogaerts, Bradley, Webster, De La Rosa etc...

All of whom will begin to start making an impact on our big club starting in 2014. That is why you don't rush out to sign a bunch of FA's. I would like to ring bback Ellsbury also, over Hamilton. Signing Hamilton, may affect how we deal with Ellsbury.

[Nomar]

You have Barnes, Bogaerts, Bradley, Webster, De La Rosa etc...

All of whom will begin to start making an impact on our big club starting in 2014. That is why you don't rush out to sign a bunch of FA's. I would like to ring bback Ellsbury also, over Hamilton. Signing Hamilton, may affect how we deal with Ellsbury.

Ellsbury is gone, one way or another. Trade this winter, trade at the deadline next year, or he walks in free agency. We wont even legitimately try to extend him.

[BackyardRounder]

I would like to see the Red Sox get back to a team that emphasizes pitching, quality at bats and therefor on base percentage, and defense. I don't like the transitions we made to inpatient speedsters and all-or-nothing power hitters. Last year, we had three positions which provided a collective OBP below .300.

SS - .272
C - .278
CF - .299

SS realistically won't be addressed via free agency. Unless you consider Marco Scutaro a shortstop, there aren't any free agents at the position who have had an OBP over .325 the last two years. I would like the Red Sox to make a trade for Jamey Carroll (.343 OBP last year, .355+ OBP the previous four years versatile defensively).

At catcher, I would like the team to spend significant money on Carlos Ruiz even though he is 33. Improving the pitching starts at the catcher position. Saltalamacchia simply is not a good defensive catcher and I have not been impressed with his game calling. Ruiz is one of the game's better defensive catchers, he's caught a very successful staff in Philadelphia and has a reputation as a good game caller and he's hit .303/.382/.458 the last two seasons while averaging over 120 games a year. We need a veteran behind the plate, not someone who's still learning on the job if we want the pitching to turn around.

CF will most likely be improved by a healthy Jacoby Ellsbury.

Pitching is a little more difficult. Given the state of our team, I wouldn't give up anything significant in a trade. I think Greinke's anxiety issues are overblown and if we're going to be giving out long-term contracts to starting pitchers, we should give them to younger players such as him. I would pass if he demands too much though, Jake Peavy or Dan Haren would be a nice consolation prize if they could be required on a shorter contract.

Other than that, I think we just have to suck it up and realize this most likely is a rebuilding year and see what we can get from Lester, Buchholz and Doubront. Scott Baker would make a solid option as possible insurance. The Red Sox could even give him a shot at competing for a spot in the rotation to lure him in to signing. He'd certainly be better than Aaron Cook.

At this point, I'd bring back Ortiz and then see what's left at first base. First basemen, or at least the quality of first basemen available this year, are a dime a dozen.

[win red sox]

Did you check the offerings? You can't possibly think we just have holes? We having gaping wounds.



Only if BC has a loaded gun to his temple. Terrible moves, both.



And the wisdom of experience - like Theo tried to preach here - is that sometimes it is much wiser to retreat and reload then charge ahead mindlessly. Go look at the history of English longbowmen and French knights if you don't believe it.

so im assuming your for the "kansas city rebuild program", which is getting high draft picks hoping and praying that the farm system delivers the red sox from mediocrity and maybe just maybe the red sox will be competitive in 2015 at the earliest. You honestly think the red sox could afford to be uncompetitive for 2-3 more years, the main source of income for the red sox is adtvertising and the pink hats and 2-3 more years of losing would be devastating to both. Its going to be harder and harder to sign free agent elite bats and elite arms as teams are locking up players to long term contracts during there arb years. And who cares how if they signed Hamilton for 4/100 and Napoli to 3/39 if it doesnt effect there payroll flexiblity, and unless you are and investor or owner it shouldn't matter. enough of defending my suggestions, what exactly is your plan? let me guess let the youngsters play and sign low salary complimentary free agents like they did in 2004(papi,millar,mueller), only problem with that is they had an elite bat(manny ramirez 8/160) in the middle of the lineup that was the driving force.

[BackyardRounder]

so im assuming your for the "kansas city rebuild program", which is getting high draft picks hoping and praying that the farm system delivers the red sox from mediocrity and maybe just maybe the red sox will be competitive in 2015 at the earliest. You honestly think the red sox could afford to be uncompetitive for 2-3 more years, the main source of income for the red sox is adtvertising and the pink hats and 2-3 more years of losing would be devastating to both. Its going to be harder and harder to sign free agent elite bats and elite arms as teams are locking up players to long term contracts during there arb years. And who cares how if they signed Hamilton for 4/100 and Napoli to 3/39 if it doesnt effect there payroll flexiblity, and unless you are and investor or owner it shouldn't matter. enough of defending my suggestions, what exactly is your plan? let me guess let the youngsters play and sign low salary complimentary free agents like they did in 2004(papi,millar,mueller), only problem with that is they had an elite bat(manny ramirez 8/160) in the middle of the lineup that was the driving force.

Honestly, I think our rebuilding phase will simply mean that don't go on a 2007-like spending spree and instead lower our payroll by a $15-30 million instead. We're never going to be a small market team.

[win red sox]

I would like to see the Red Sox get back to a team that emphasizes pitching, quality at bats and therefor on base percentage, and defense. I don't like the transitions we made to inpatient speedsters and all-or-nothing power hitters. Last year, we had three positions which provided a collective OBP below .300.

SS - .272
C - .278
CF - .299

SS realistically won't be addressed via free agency. Unless you consider Marco Scutaro a shortstop, there aren't any free agents at the position who have had an OBP over .325 the last two years. I would like the Red Sox to make a trade for Jamey Carroll (.343 OBP last year, .355+ OBP the previous four years versatile defensively).

At catcher, I would like the team to spend significant money on Carlos Ruiz even though he is 33. Improving the pitching starts at the catcher position. Saltalamacchia simply is not a good defensive catcher and I have not been impressed with his game calling. Ruiz is one of the game's better defensive catchers, he's caught a very successful staff in Philadelphia and has a reputation as a good game caller and he's hit .303/.382/.458 the last two seasons while averaging over 120 games a year. We need a veteran behind the plate, not someone who's still learning on the job if we want the pitching to turn around.

CF will most likely be improved by a healthy Jacoby Ellsbury.

Pitching is a little more difficult. Given the state of our team, I wouldn't give up anything significant in a trade. I think Greinke's anxiety issues are overblown and if we're going to be giving out long-term contracts to starting pitchers, we should give them to younger players such as him. I would pass if he demands too much though, Jake Peavy or Dan Haren would be a nice consolation prize if they could be required on a shorter contract.

Other than that, I think we just have to suck it up and realize this most likely is a rebuilding year and see what we can get from Lester, Buchholz and Doubront. Scott Baker would make a solid option as possible insurance. The Red Sox could even give him a shot at competing for a spot in the rotation to lure him in to signing. He'd certainly be better than Aaron Cook.

At this point, I'd bring back Ortiz and then see what's left at first base. First basemen, or at least the quality of first basemen available this year, are a dime a dozen.

excellent suggestion on Carrol, had no clue his obp was that good, Im assuming we would have to move aviles or ciriaco due to redundacy.

I think Carlos Ruiz has a 5 million team option which i think is a given that the phillies will pick up. Another option could be David Ross from Atlanta.

The Ellsbury situation will be very interesting, I imagine they do shop him and if they get the deal there looking for(hopefully young pitchers) they pull the trigger. But I would anticipate a monster year from Ellsbury either way.

I would imagine Peavy,Haren, and Jackson would not come to Boston on a 1 or even a 2 year deal unless its a significant overpay. Baker is a interesting option.