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  1. #1561
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    Quote Originally Posted by EwanSellars View Post
    what do you guys think we would have t give up for wil myers i know kc needs pitching help but im not sure who we would give up doubront maybe? im wondering what you guys think myers i worth
    Id rather give up Buch and prospects between the range of 12-18 then one more between 26-30. Probably need one more pitching prospect...so how about Buch, Workman, Marreo
    Last edited by SoxFan101NlB; 11-20-2012 at 12:47 AM. Reason: ** will need more Im sure, do not know what KC needs from us to make it work

  2. #1562
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368:24391722
    Quote Originally Posted by BradytoMossTD View Post
    I dont see the point of signing berkman at all. Id rather just have Nava/Kalish.

    Let the kids play. Develop the farm. Create trade bait/ develop the keepers.
    You could argue that Berkman could become mid season trade bait, and it costs zero to the farm, but might add to it later.

    Nava is at best a 5th OF/PH. Kalish has a hill to climb this year, or it could be time to cut bait on him.
    Yea you could argue he can be trade bait, but chances are we wont get anything worth while back for a injury prone 36 year old player. We might be better off letting a young guy build his value.
    The name is Amendola....

    ...Danny Amendola

  3. #1563
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradytoMossTD View Post
    Yea you could argue he can be trade bait, but chances are we wont get anything worth while back for a injury prone 36 year old player. We might be better off letting a young guy build his value.
    He could totally be tearing it up here as long as he is not playing more than 1/6 his games in the outfield. If the sox sign him he will be our firstbaseman/DH 85% of the time, with the occasional game in left field. If he is hitting 295-310/355-370/410-440 he could be worth a decent prospect or 2 from someone needing extra pop...maybe a NL team needing that one extra hitter to put them over the top.

  4. #1564
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    For whatever reason you have a problem with him. He's well better than anyone we have and is worth at least a kick at the tires.
    Pretty sure I made this clear. I'd rather keep the prospect surplus then trade a handful of them for AC.

    But that's just me.

  5. #1565
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    Quote Originally Posted by EwanSellars View Post
    what do you guys think we would have t give up for wil myers i know kc needs pitching help but im not sure who we would give up doubront maybe? im wondering what you guys think myers i worth
    It'd take Buccholz/Barnes at least, maybe throw in Brentz as a replacement corner OF.

  6. #1566
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    Quote Originally Posted by EwanSellars View Post
    what do you guys think we would have t give up for wil myers i know kc needs pitching help but im not sure who we would give up doubront maybe? im wondering what you guys think myers i worth
    In the sim I'm finishing up now I have Lester to KC for Myers and some mid level guys. They want a top of the rotation pitcher and Lester only has 2 years left on his contract. It doesn't look like the Sox will be serious contenders in those 2 years so why not move him for value now. Sure it isnt at its highest point right now, but I wouldn't be able to pass on a bat the quality of Myers. Can you imagine a lineup of Jackie Bradley Jr leading off with Myers and Bogaerts hitting 3/4

  7. #1567
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradytoMossTD View Post
    Yea you could argue he can be trade bait, but chances are we wont get anything worth while back for a injury prone 36 year old player. We might be better off letting a young guy build his value.
    What young guy? Nava has already hit his peak (replacement level player that can't hit lefties at all, he'll be 30 years old in Feb as well). Kalish will either build his value or end his career essentially if he's a starter - so there is value in that.

    If Berkman plays well in the first half, the market will be there. Obviously as I said DH was his best home here, so the chances of him coming is minimal.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-20-2012 at 07:34 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #1568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty17 View Post
    LOL ray: please AA talk with BV... Hire him... Let your entire offseason trades and signings crumble in the matter of months to the feet of He-who-shall-not-be-named.
    That would have be funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    @Joseph_Duarte: Lance Berkman says interest from 4 teams (Rays, Phillies, Astros & Red Sox) is in 'tire-kicking mode'
    Not really interested in this guy at all at this point. If we didnt get Ortiz back I wouldn't have minded him. But I think he is close to finished as a fielder. Let the Astro's sign him and use him for a DH/1B/LF

  9. #1569
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    Blue Jays Hire Gibbons... again. His best year was 2006 with the Jays going 87-75 with arguably the best Toronto team in the past 8 years. 2013's team isn't close to that team even with the trade and signings. I think this hurts them.

  10. #1570
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    Calling all roster moves

    So it seems that the Red Sox are off to a lackluster offseason so far. I assume that means they have something in the works, and when the cards fall they will all fall at once. Just to take a peek though, here is what the Sox roster will look like if they fail to make any changes in the coming weeks.

    C - Salty
    1B - Mauro Gomez
    2B - Pedroia
    SS - Iglesias
    3B - Middlebrooks
    LF - Sands
    CF - Ellsbury
    RF - Kalish
    DH - Ortiz

    4th Outfielder - Sweeney
    Util. Inf. - Cirico
    Backup Catcher - David Ross
    5th Outfielder - Nava
    Util. Inf. - Lavarnway

    SP
    1) Lester
    2) Bucholtz
    3) Lackey
    4) Doubrandt
    5) Aceves

    CL - Bailey
    SU - Tazawa
    SU - Bard
    MR - Rich Hill
    MR - Melancon
    MR - Atchison
    LR - Miller

    Did I miss anyone we currently have under contract?

    To me, we need to address 1B and the corner outfield spots. Igelsias needs to be given a shot at SS. Middlebrooks, Laser Show, Ortiz, and Ellsbury are really the only pieces I'd say are good to go in the lineup. The catching situation is fine. Salty and D. Ross are very capable. (Ross more so defensively.) Lavarnway could see some time at first if he gets his bat going again. Pitching staff is pretty solid, not great, but if Lackey comes back strong, definitely solid. The bullpen looks strong also, when and if healthy.

  11. #1571
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    Quote Originally Posted by athlete9393 View Post
    You'd deal Middlebrooks in a future bulding deal? Isn't Middlebrooks the future? lol. Holy ****!
    It was a pretty specific word choice intended to convey WHEN I would be willing to deal him. It said very little about what I think of Middlebrooks, only what I think of his value.

    Middlebrooks is a decent but streaky hitter with 20-25HR power and questionable fielding. He HAS to outhit his fielding. That makes him an answer but not necessarily the future. It's more likely, IMO, that he's going to hold the position for no more than 2-3yrs until the Sox have a better solution.

    And the reason that I said that it would have to be a "future building" deal was precisely to say that I would not trade him for a guy like Felix whom you would control for only 2yrs. No matter how sexy the name I don't deal Middlebrooks unless we're looking at 3+ years of control BECAUSE we have Middlebrooks under control as a piece of the puzzle for at least 5 yrs.

    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    Trade Clay and WMB for Justin Upton. Upton just has so much potential and has already shown it in previous years. Clay is nothing but a meh 3 here or a very good 4 (plus health issues)
    I'm not that much of an Upton fan. While I'm sure many disagree I see him as the Josh Beckett of OFers right down to the even-odd year production cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    Sign Anibal Sanchez to a 4 year deal worth 64 million dollars. I rather give him a higher salary at lower years. He has earned more in WAR money over the last 3 seasons on a per year basis. Solid bet to be a 3-4 WAR pitcher during the duration of each season. I think he would bite at that contract. Again nothing that is too much of a burden with our current payroll, and the contracts coming off the next 2 years, it wouldn't be terrible if he and Napoli were our 2 biggest contracts after the 2014 season left at 16 and 11 million per with only 2 years left each. Years people, not money, because it ain't our money.
    Heard that Sanchez is looking for $18M AAV. Would you go $20M/4yrs? I probably would not.

    I hate the "it's not our money" argument. It's just silly. If you're paying for NESN or MLB extra innings, going to the game and ordering $10 beers, buying the paraphernalia then it's your money. Even if you don't care to look at it that way then consider the 2015 Sox: spending $16-20Myr for 4yrs means you've taken 1/8th of the payroll for a year you expect to be very competitive. At that point you HAVE spent "our money" in terms of contract buying power.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    For Alex Gordon and Salvador Perez I could unload a fat package:

    Buchholz, Webster, Workman, Jacobs, Lavarnway + $10M

    Don't say no until you figure out who Perez is and how long we control Gordon.
    Too many arms for a deal that does not bring one back. I also would not include any cash. Clay is pretty cheap while under contract and his options will be mid-rotation starter money by the time they're exercised.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Felix given the lack of guys in FA this year is at a value level that's above all the offers mentioned expect perhaps one.
    Not really interested in Felix for the reason mentioned above, namely that I see the Sox needing to fill in too many holes. By spending big to bring in Felix they diminish their ability to fix other positions and consequently weaken the chances that they can compete in the two years in which they'd have Felix under control. I liked the idea when we had AGon

    Quote Originally Posted by -Lavigne43- View Post
    Players that have huge years in the low levels get overrated and overhyped because they're new and exciting. Kelly falls into that group along with players like Lars, Almanzar, Britton, and more. It's why on my personal list I would have JBjr and Webster higher than Barnes. Top talent in the upper level minors should be more untouchable than the hyped prospects in the lower levels that are much more likely to bust.
    I basically agree, though I'd suggest that Almanzar generated buzz even before he did anything. He was hyped solely on name and physical tools; aside from one 99PA stint in the GCL he had not hit above .270/.310/.380 in any minor league season until his FIFTH shot at A ball. Is my dislike of this kid showing through???

    I have higher hopes for Barnes than most because of the way he was getting outs and because of his college track record though I do have some concerns about what slowed him down in the second half.

    Quote Originally Posted by Station 13 View Post
    what what, Gary Sheffield is an agent now?
    He was always an agent. He actually negotiated his own deals while he was a player, too. I believe that's how Schilling and Timlin both got into doing their own deals.

    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post



    tito= **** before sox.
    The problem that I have with this argument, which has come up in the popular press as well, was that Francona spent three years between managing the Phils and coming to the Sox. That's three years where you think through what you did right, what you did wrong, and how you could adjust. It's also three years where you work with other managers and coaches to gain a different perspective. Farrell is coming straight from a near-90 loss season into a new manager's slot. He has none of the advantages that Tito had.

  12. #1572
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuSox View Post
    In the sim I'm finishing up now I have Lester to KC for Myers and some mid level guys. They want a top of the rotation pitcher and Lester only has 2 years left on his contract. It doesn't look like the Sox will be serious contenders in those 2 years so why not move him for value now. Sure it isnt at its highest point right now, but I wouldn't be able to pass on a bat the quality of Myers.
    I'd do that in a heartbeat, but they'll ask for Buccholz. I'd still do it though.

    We need to do what the Oakland A's did this year: use young, talented pitchers in their rotation (like Jarrod Parker, AJ Griffin, Dan Straily).

    Maybe not this year, but 2014 if our rotation could include Barnes, Webster and RDLR, that would be sweet.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuSox View Post
    Can you imagine a lineup of Jackie Bradley Jr leading off with Myers and Bogaerts hitting 3/4
    That would be awesome!

    1. L JBJ
    2. R Pedroia
    3. R Myers
    4. R Bogaerts
    5/6. R Middlebrooks

  13. #1573
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    Quote Originally Posted by bth18733 View Post
    So it seems that the Red Sox are off to a lackluster offseason so far.
    How much actually happens in a given year on this day in November? Not bloody much. I hope you are not using the Toronto deal as a benchmark. That deal is going to hurt Toronto badly by 2015 or in 2015 - at the latest.
    C - Salty
    1B - Mauro Gomez
    2B - Pedroia
    SS - Iglesias
    3B - Middlebrooks
    LF - Sands
    CF - Ellsbury
    RF - Kalish
    DH - Ortiz

    4th Outfielder - Sweeney
    Util. Inf. - Cirico
    Backup Catcher - David Ross
    5th Outfielder - Nava
    Util. Inf. - Lavarnway

    SP
    1) Lester
    2) Bucholtz
    3) Lackey
    4) Doubrandt
    5) Aceves

    CL - Bailey
    SU - Tazawa
    SU - Bard
    MR - Rich Hill
    MR - Melancon
    MR - Atchison
    LR - Miller

    Did I miss anyone we currently have under contract?

    To me, we need to address 1B and the corner outfield spots. Igelsias needs to be given a shot at SS. Middlebrooks, Laser Show, Ortiz, and Ellsbury are really the only pieces I'd say are good to go in the lineup. The catching situation is fine. Salty and D. Ross are very capable. (Ross more so defensively.) Lavarnway could see some time at first if he gets his bat going again. Pitching staff is pretty solid, not great, but if Lackey comes back strong, definitely solid. The bullpen looks strong also, when and if healthy.
    Can't agree on your pitching staff assessment. Aceves is a MR/spot starter, not a #5. Lackey is a question mark until proven otherwise, and a potential must deal due to his clubhouse aura. Bard is a reclamation project, not a sure bet.

    Salty seems all but dealt. Lavarnway hasn't played 1B since college I do believe.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-20-2012 at 03:23 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #1574
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    Too many arms for a deal that does not bring one back. I also would not include any cash. Clay is pretty cheap while under contract and his options will be mid-rotation starter money by the time they're exercised.
    Buchholz's deal is great if he can pitch 200 IP every year, that's in doubt. Between Workman & Webster it would be a good outcome to come up with one #4 SP - very good. The bloom seems to be coming off of Jacobs. Lavarnway could well be something which is why either him or Salty has to go back to get our hands on one of the 2-3 best young catchers in the game.

    Meanwhile the two players coming back are making chump change and we have good control, meaning we can buy back some pitching if that's an issue and avoid spending for retreads at LF and C.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  15. #1575
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuSox View Post
    In the sim I'm finishing up now I have Lester to KC for Myers and some mid level guys. They want a top of the rotation pitcher and Lester only has 2 years left on his contract. It doesn't look like the Sox will be serious contenders in those 2 years so why not move him for value now. Sure it isnt at its highest point right now, but I wouldn't be able to pass on a bat the quality of Myers. Can you imagine a lineup of Jackie Bradley Jr leading off with Myers and Bogaerts hitting 3/4
    I believe that KC would ask for more...Probably something along the lines of Lester, RDLR, Workman, and Brentz/Jacobs. Maybe instead of Workman, a guy like Raunado...has all the potential in the world, but can he put it together? KC might like his upside, and for KC, getting three pitchers back, with one being close to an ACE(lester) and two with ACE/#2 potential, they may have to think about it before they hang up the phone.

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