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  1. #1531
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    At SS range is about 7-9 times as important has errors. He gets to more balls, hence more errors. He was 2nd in range factor last year across the whole AL.

    Go look up Ozzie Smith. 5 times 20 or more errors. Cabrera has averaged 17 the past two years.

    Streaky? Won the silver slugger in '11, one of the top hitting SS in '11. 2nd or 3rd best hitting SS in '12.
    He has a career -10.3 UZR/150 at SS (credit to Superdude).

    Last year, he was really hot in April-June in terms of BA and OBP. Then July-August he was pretty awful. He is streaky on a month to month basis.

    I just don't think he'll be worth the amount of prospects the Tribe will be looking for.

  2. #1532
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSports96 View Post
    I just don't think he'll be worth the amount of prospects the Tribe will be looking for.
    That's it. A Cabrera dosn't strike me as a guy you would trade top-prospects for. If you have him in your system and you develop him, just fine, but not with the price tag of a premium player. His defense is questionable at best and I am not too keen on his bat in the future to make up for it.
    The only thing that might make sense is a 3-way trade with ARZ and CLE in order to get Upton. Cabrera would go to Arizona, top-specs from us to Cleveland (likely starting with Barnes/Webster, Iglesias+) and Arizona (Cecchini?)

  3. #1533
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSports96 View Post
    He has a career -10.3 UZR/150 at SS (credit to Superdude).

    Last year, he was really hot in April-June in terms of BA and OBP. Then July-August he was pretty awful. He is streaky on a month to month basis.

    I just don't think he'll be worth the amount of prospects the Tribe will be looking for.
    That's nice. I've given up using UZR (not to mention FIP) at FG. UZR is far too erratic year to year to trust. Go ahead and actually look up the numbers (not including 1B and C - where the FG numbers are useless beyond belief) and compare what you know of them vs UZR.

    Baseball-References fielding stats stretch back to 1954 unlike UZR to 2002 (and FG has to keep adjusting them like Fenways LF and CF about two years ago) - and are far less erratic and give numbers that sync up better with the fielders performances as you've seen them. They have him as a +13 runs saved above average in his career, meaning mildly above average.

    Most hitters are streaky. How do you know he wasn't hurt? Ortiz is very streaky - guess we should get rid of him. In 2011 AC was weaker in Aug and Sep, but just fine in JUly - fine enough to win the SS.

    For whatever reason you have a problem with him. He's well better than anyone we have and is worth at least a kick at the tires.

    SH: Not keen on his bat? GMAB. He's either the #1 or #2 offensive SS in the AL the past two years. He just turned 27 a couple of days ago. One of the two primary fielding metrics say he's average. He's got good OBP skills. He'd hit 40+ 2B as a Red Sox.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-19-2012 at 01:45 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  4. #1534
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    Asdrubal is the type of guy who makes incredible defensive plays, but can totally botch routine ones. He's a good hitter at an extremely weak hitting position. It's worth a look.

  5. #1535
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    SH: Not keen on his bat? GMAB. He's either the #1 or #2 offensive SS in the AL the past two years. He just turned 27 a couple of days ago. One of the two primary fielding metrics say he's average. He's got good OBP skills. He'd hit 40+ 2B as a Red Sox.
    Quote me right, please. Not keen on his bat IN THE FUTURE. I am not sure he'll be able to sustain his offensive numbers...and even if he does, still don't like his D. And just because he's the #1 or #2 offensive SS doesn't mean you have to trade for him. He won't come cheap and I'd rather have a player like JUpton.
    And the two primary fielding metrics are contrary...and I trust the one which got him below average.

  6. #1536
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    I'm not against having Iglesias start off the year, maybe he will turn it around and start hitting. If he does we will have one hell of a shortstop. Give him a chance, its not like we are a contending team anyways.
    The name is Amendola....

    ...Danny Amendola

  7. #1537
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirHizz View Post
    Quote me right, please. Not keen on his bat IN THE FUTURE. I am not sure he'll be able to sustain his offensive numbers...and even if he does, still don't like his D. And just because he's the #1 or #2 offensive SS doesn't mean you have to trade for him. He won't come cheap and I'd rather have a player like JUpton.
    And the two primary fielding metrics are contrary...and I trust the one which got him below average.
    Which is why I said he just turned 27. He's in his prime.

    Why won't he be able to sustain his numbers? Cleveland is a tough place to hit these days (91 batting factor in 2012). Fenway was a 106 in 2012. So getting into a stronger line-up (most likely) and a net gain of 15% in park factor. How wouldn't he be able to sustain his hitting over the past two years if not increase it? An eyeball of the corrections on his numbers (OBP into the .350's) means that in Fenway he's liable to be a .365 ish type OBP - or leadoff guy in front a decent line-up, FAR better then the Indians recently.

    Upton will cost far more then AC. Be serious please.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #1538
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradytoMossTD View Post
    I'm not against having Iglesias start off the year, maybe he will turn it around and start hitting. If he does we will have one hell of a shortstop. Give him a chance, its not like we are a contending team anyways.
    I'm OK with giving him a chance to build value. But I do not believe in his bat or ability to swing it at Major League pitching. Chances are as a full time SS this year his BA is under .220 and his OBP no more then .025 over that.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  9. #1539
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I'm OK with giving him a chance to build value. But I do not believe in his bat or ability to swing it at Major League pitching. Chances are as a full time SS this year his BA is under .220 and his OBP no more then .025 over that.
    Agreed, I just want to give him a shot. Who knows what could happen.
    The name is Amendola....

    ...Danny Amendola

  10. #1540
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEasyA View Post
    Dtp are you even a red sox fan and if you are,why the have john farrell is a loser as part of your username.I almost thought you were a troll wasn't that excited about the farrell hire but let's give him a chance. I also agree with you about adding talent don't agree with this rebuilding with prospects because some of them are going to be busts.The only sure prospects are Xander and jackie bradley
    We can only hope that they are "sure" things...but they do seem to have the best pedigree to make it. I'm apart of the group that feels that JBjr is going to be our lead off hitter for the next 8-10 years. Also apart of the group that thinks XB will be a perennial all star who has the potential to put up .280 .380 .500 slash with 30 hr and 110 rbi during his peak seasons. And I say SEASONS because I believe his potential is that high.

    But the thing about our prospects is that, we, as red sox fans, obviously overate them...but I also believe we have a strong farm system with the potential to have 4-7 home grown players start on the team in the next 2-3 years. This is not including Pedy, Lester, Buch.

  11. #1541
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    Well said soxfan.I agree with everything you just said.we only need 3 to make it.others like iggy could be used as trade bait.what do you think of rubby de la rosa

  12. #1542
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I'm OK with giving him a chance to build value. But I do not believe in his bat or ability to swing it at Major League pitching. Chances are as a full time SS this year his BA is under .220 and his OBP no more then .025 over that.
    His bat will literally do nothing. I personally don't see anything outside of a Cesar Izturis defensive clone. Seeing him enough in the batters box in AAA etc, his fielding is great, however his bat is never going to be much more than a bench guy.

    Rachel Zane: You're a sneaky little boy.

  13. #1543
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrkGawdofWalkz View Post
    His bat will literally do nothing. I personally don't see anything outside of a Cesar Izturis defensive clone. Seeing him enough in the batters box in AAA etc, his fielding is great, however his bat is never going to be much more than a bench guy.
    Right, I guess I was too subtle. I'm willing to let him hang himself so we can get past him. He might turn out to be a fine D replacement at the SS/3B/2B, with maybe 15 starts, he could become a PR as well. But as a ML hitter those that see him growing into being a .260/.300/.330 hitter are likely doomed to eternal frustration.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #1544
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    I can't believe people are arguing against Cabrera when we have Iglesias and a thin fa crop as alterbatives

  15. #1545
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    The res sox are so slow to make moves.Dang.The front office had two or three months to figure out who they wanted to get to improve this team.we were out of contention like the first month of the season

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