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  1. #721
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    That team may be my favorite ever...it is neck and neck with 08
    2011 PSD Phillies Forum HOF Inductee


    Harry, I grew up with the phillies and learned the game by your voice. You will always be missed but never forgotten. Though you are no longer with us, you'll never be "outta here" in our hearts!

  2. #722
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    Rockies acquire wilton lopez fwiw....

  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    My only argument is that the time to start hoarding prospects was before Lee I, when we actually had prospects. Since then, we've basically traded away a starting line-up of young guys that, had we kept them and groomed them properly (like Taylor, Drabek, Marson, Donald, Jaramillo, D'Arnaud, Singleton, Golson, etc.) would be integral parts of our current line-up or moving into full-time roles this year or next.

    Now, I understand, once you do Lee I, you may as well do Halladay, Pence, etc. But there was no real impetus for Lee I as we were coming of a WS championship and were still the best team in the NL in '09 at the time of the deal. Maybe my memory is a little foggy and we absolutely NEEDED Lee. If so, I've forgotten.

    Just seems odd timing to start keeping specs when we don't have any that look to be anything more than ok except for the guys who are 2-3 years away.

    But... maybe they're not and next week we make 5 bold trades/ signings.
    I agree with you about when was really the time to hang onto prospects, but to be fair the guys you listed haven't accomplished much. I didn't like the philosophy but the actual results haven't hurt us too badly. Of course, Singleton and d'Arnaud could still turn out to be great players.

    That was the summer of playing chicken with J.P. Ricciardi about Halladay. The Lee deal was great at the time and only looks better in retrospect, especially since we likely would not have gotten back to the Series without Cliff.

    Nothing would really surprise me at this point, short of Amaro tacking more years onto Howard's deal. And maybe not even that.

  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I also wouldn't sweat multiple platoons, presuming you do them right. The '93 team that kicked unholy @$$ had 3 and no SS until July;

    2B: Duncan-Morandini
    LF: Inky-Thompson
    RF: Chamberlain-Eisenreich
    SS: Bell-Stocker
    If I'm not mistaken (and I could be). The '93 team carried 13 position players rather than the now-standard 12.

    A Chavez/Figgins platoon is a fine idea, but I just don't see how the bench has flexibility to handle that. Even on the thin 3b market, it's not terribly difficult to compress that pair's expected value into one player.

    Counting on using a platoon with two players you don't currently own is risky. Neither player has been tied to the Phillies at this point so they'd probably have to overpay to get their names on the list.
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  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by philsphan123 View Post
    That team may be my favorite ever...it is neck and neck with 08
    I was in my early 20's and it had been year after year of just awful baseball for a decade. I remember tracking all the moves in the Philadelphia Daily News which, at the time, had the best sports section in the country (wouldn't know about that now, haven't read a DN in many years). And even that winter I had a gut feeling they were going to be pretty good for some reason. Then all these guys had career years and they got off to such a hot start. That was a fun summer.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuckus View Post
    I agree with you about when was really the time to hang onto prospects, but to be fair the guys you listed haven't accomplished much. I didn't like the philosophy but the actual results haven't hurt us too badly. Of course, Singleton and d'Arnaud could still turn out to be great players.

    That was the summer of playing chicken with J.P. Ricciardi about Halladay. The Lee deal was great at the time and only looks better in retrospect, especially since we likely would not have gotten back to the Series without Cliff.

    Nothing would really surprise me at this point, short of Amaro tacking more years onto Howard's deal. And maybe not even that.
    Yeah, I vacillate on this quite often; '08 WS After Glow vs. Seller's Remorse. Generally '08 wins, but it's interesting to wonder if all those guys don't pan out a little more if they stay with the organization that drafted them. And remember, none of these guys would need to be stars in the Rollins-Utley-Howard Era, they just need to be pretty good. In other words, would we have gotten comparable production from Golson/ Taylor as we did Pence/ Ibanez? Would Drabek have given us the same as Blanton? Would D'Arnaud allow us to let Chooch walk and reinvest elsewhere? Etc.

    Not professing to have any further insight beyond, perhaps, bestowing these guys with a little more talent and upside then they have (absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that) but keeping a FEW of them at least gives us a little more payroll flexibility. But that do I know?

    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    If I'm not mistaken (and I could be). The '93 team carried 13 position players rather than the now-standard 12.

    A Chavez/Figgins platoon is a fine idea, but I just don't see how the bench has flexibility to handle that. Even on the thin 3b market, it's not terribly difficult to compress that pair's expected value into one player.

    Counting on using a platoon with two players you don't currently own is risky. Neither player has been tied to the Phillies at this point so they'd probably have to overpay to get their names on the list.
    QUick Internet search shows 13 Phillies position players got AB's.
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  6. #726
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    WTF is Amaro doing?

  7. #727
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    Youkilis decision near, per mlbtr.
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  8. #728
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    Jim Duquette says that Amaro met with Mike Adams last night as well.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdaino View Post
    WTF is Amaro doing?
    Not offering horrible contracts

  10. #730
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    Anybody notice that Greinke is taking his time signing a contract. Reports are he is very hands on with where he will end up. Any chances Ruben is laying low and make a last minute push so that he can free up one of our other starters?

    Signing Greinke, frees up Lee to be traded. If rumors were correct. Send Lee while paying part of his salary and Galvis for Justin Upton.

    We get younger at 2 positions and save money/risk of keeping Lee and making a potential run at Hamilton.

  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by CinnPirate View Post
    Anybody notice that Greinke is taking his time signing a contract. Reports are he is very hands on with where he will end up. Any chances Ruben is laying low and make a last minute push so that he can free up one of our other starters?

    Signing Greinke, frees up Lee to be traded. If rumors were correct. Send Lee while paying part of his salary and Galvis for Justin Upton.

    We get younger at 2 positions and save money/risk of keeping Lee and making a potential run at Hamilton.
    How is trading Lee, while paying part of his contract, taking on Upton's contract, and signing Greinke, saving money?

    Amaro has repeatedly said he is not trading and of the 3 pitchers...so even though that sounds nice, it doesnt seem realistic.

    I am just hoping Amaro is going to pull a trade for somebody that nobody is talking about...get us all excited about a Philadelphia sports team

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexicano31 View Post
    Not offering horrible contracts
    I know we are accustomed to it during this time of the year, but man, I agree sexi.

    It's weird, but it's entertaining watching teams do what we normally do, and that's overspending. I may be in the minority, but I like this offseason.

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan1 View Post
    How is trading Lee, while paying part of his contract, taking on Upton's contract, and signing Greinke, saving money?

    Amaro has repeatedly said he is not trading and of the 3 pitchers...so even though that sounds nice, it doesnt seem realistic.

    I am just hoping Amaro is going to pull a trade for somebody that nobody is talking about...get us all excited about a Philadelphia sports team
    Well based on Ruben's past he pretty much does the exact opposite of what he says publicly. What I meant was we would save money in possible dead salary.

    Lee (34) makes 24 million a year 3 years remaining
    Greinke (29) is looking for 25 Million a year for 6 years

    Hamilton (31) Injuries/Substance abuse asking for 175 million over 7 years
    Upton (25) 39 Million for next 3 years

    Lee + Hamilton = 49 Million a year
    Greinke + Upton = 38 Million a year

    I'm not saying these guys get those contracts but you can see even if the Phils pay 10 million a year for Lee they still save a million or so. But get 5+ years younger at 2 positions.

    But where I'm really talking about is the end of the contracts where both Lee and Hamilton won't really be worth the money but we'd still have to pay it. In this scenario with the younger guys you don't risk that dead money.

  14. #734
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    i like the idea of an ellsbury trade as long as the price is not too steep. i know the health issues and that he is a boras guy and boras will probably not allow him to extend before he hits FA, but i think the upside is great.

  15. #735
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    I'm kind of interested in Ellsbury. If any sort of trade involves Lee going for him it'd have to be more than just Ellsbury regardless if the Phillies chip in cash or not. Even though he doesn't have much plate patience, I'd see what I could do about getting Middlebrooks included.

    I'd almost be fine with Ellsbury, Middlebrooks for Lee, middling minor leaguer and Cash.
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    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

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