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  1. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDBearsFan View Post
    I know Tice has been frustrating but I cringe at the thought of having Cutler and the Bears offense learn ANOTHER new offensive system; yes, I'm sure Bates would carry over many of the same things but there'd definitely be significant differences, as well IMO.

    You know what's the worst part of all this? Statistically I'm probably wrong, but it certainly seemed like we were a better running team with Martz at the helm...
    As much as Martz was frustrating, he had a system that made sense with who we have. If he let his ego drop and would allow Jay to audible and run fewer long-developing plays, Martz wasn't the biggest problem we had.

    Granted, he had too large of an ego to correct those things, so we needed change. But Tice's offense hasn't been successful, either.


    And you're right according to PFF. We were a better rushing team (albeit marginally), but we're seeing stronger run blocking grades out of our OL this year (which is probably more due to being healthy).


  2. #947
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    Tait/Brown/Kreutz/Garza/False Start Fred


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  3. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDBearsFan View Post
    Tait/Brown/Kreutz/Garza/False Start Fred


    Yup. That line was freaking sexy.


  4. #949
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    I was watching some '06 highlights, and I'm absolutely, 100% positive that Jay was our QB on that team, we'd have won the Super Bowl. I know it's all pointless but that line was awesome; you see the ball snap and instead of guys getting pushed immediately backwards, they were attacking the defensive linemen.
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  5. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    Paying $10 mil/year to damn near any player is stupid management. The "requisite money" depends on the player AND the position. You're a dumb owner if you pay a guard money that you pay a WR. I don't agree with that philosophy, but that's how the structure of the game is, and if your C and T next to you suck anyway, you're not going to get the impact out of the guard that you would if the C and T were halfway decent.

    If you want to go by PFF, there are 26 guards that grade at +5.0 or better on the season. Some of them are highly paid, some are not. You're always taking a gamble when you sign a player to a massive contract, and it's not always wise to do so when you have other needs. Signing Carl Nicks cripples the **** out of the franchise, and guess what? He's out for the season, so you're pissing money away on someone that isn't able to play.

    The point of all of that is you have to be smart in where you take your risks. Yes, Carl Nicks is damn near a sure thing to be a good player, but if the rest of your OL is garbage, it doesn't matter how good he is/isn't.



    As for the middle part, because Tice is the OL coach. The problem isn't acquiring talent. It's grooming it. Who is our OL coach? The FO is responsible for getting an OL coach, and it falls on them for not getting the right guy. BUT, it falls on the coach for failing to develop talent. I don't get what's hard to understand about that.



    And bull ****ing **** on not going after top OL guys. Recently, no, we haven't, but like was mentioned, there haven't been a lot of guys that make sense to go after (if any at all). Outside of Nicks, Mathis, and Grubbs, I can't think of an elite (nor desirable) OL to pursue in the past 3 seasons as a FA. Do you not remember the lines Angelo built through FA when we were dominant in the mid 00s? It's not that we completely ignore the position. The Bears haven't done a good job of maintaining/developing talent, and that's coaching, not FO.
    You have to start somewhere. Deciding not to bring in a good guard b/c our T and C suck, isn't going to help anything. It just means that our T, C, and G will continue to suck. It's like saying we shouldn't pay Cutler the money he wants b/c our OL won't let him perform to his maximum capabilities.

    If Tice has been restricted by Lovie and the FO as to the OLmen currently on the roster or how much he can spend in FA, then there is only so much he can do. You can mold crap to look like the statue of david, but at the end of the day, it's still crap.

    We didn't go after any of Nicks, Mathis, or Grubbs. So no, we haven't been active in pursuing top FA OLmen.
    Last edited by Full-Size Ditka; 12-08-2012 at 07:51 PM.

  6. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full-Size Ditka View Post
    You have to start somewhere. Deciding not to bring in a good guard b/c our T and C suck, isn't going to help anything. It just means that our T, C, and G will continue to suck. It's like saying we shouldn't pay Cutler the money he wants b/c our OL won't let him perform to his maximum capabilities.

    If Tice has been restricted by Lovie and the FO as to the OLmen currently on the roster or how much he can spend in FA, then there is only so much he can do. You can mold crap to look like the statue of david, but at the end of the day, it's still crap.

    We didn't go after any of Nicks, Mathis, or Grubbs. So no, we haven't been active in pursuing top FA OLmen.
    The problem is when top tier linemen hit free agency they get dramatically overpaid. We went with depth instead and we would have no cap to work with this offseason if we signed grubbs and our line would still suck

  7. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDBearsFan View Post
    I was watching some '06 highlights, and I'm absolutely, 100% positive that Jay was our QB on that team, we'd have won the Super Bowl. I know it's all pointless but that line was awesome; you see the ball snap and instead of guys getting pushed immediately backwards, they were attacking the defensive linemen.
    I think we probably still lose that game, but who knows. Rex wasn't an awful QB and Jay is better, but they both make similar boneheaded mistakes.

    Either way, we'd be ridiculously dangerous with Jay behind that line.


  8. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full-Size Ditka View Post
    You have to start somewhere. Deciding not to bring in a good guard b/c our T and C suck, isn't going to help anything. It just means that our T, C, and G will continue to suck. It's like saying we shouldn't pay Cutler the money he wants b/c our OL won't let him perform to his maximum capabilities.

    If Tice has been restricted by Lovie and the FO as to the OLmen currently on the roster or how much he can spend in FA, then there is only so much he can do. You can mold crap to look like the statue of david, but at the end of the day, it's still crap.

    We didn't go after any of Nicks, Mathis, or Grubbs. So no, we haven't been active in pursuing top FA OLmen.
    Yes, you have to start somewhere. Starting somewhere isn't getting a $10mil guard who still would play with crap. Starting somewhere is getting an OL coach that can develop the talent we have. Starting somewhere turns our players into average linemen. If you have that, THEN you can consider getting an elite player. If you overspend on an elite player without the appropriate cast to support them, you're pissing away money.

    It'd be no different than trying to get Brandon Marshall when we had Kyle Orton. Yeah, we'd have Brandon ****ing Marshall, but we'd be paying $10mil to a guy who might rack up a ton of stats, but it'd be because he's the only guy we can target with Kyle Orton. That kind of management just glosses over the issues you actually have.

    Tice, I'd imagine, has little say on who he gets in FA. And even still, he's shown that he'll stick with players for who knows what reason (Webb). And FURTHER, he'll try to shove a OL scheme down our throats with players that don't fit it (see: this season). That's bad coaching. That's why Tice sucks.

    And no, we haven't gone after elite talent lately because there have been like 3 elite players to hit FA in the past 3 seasons. And all would be acquired when we still had crap to work with otherwise. If you want to be a big spender in FA and fix our OL, you'd have to go the route JA went when he acquired Tait, Brown, Garza, and Miller. He bought an OL. Buying just one of those guys (or a comparable guy now) doesn't do **** but lower your available spending.


  9. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    Yes, you have to start somewhere. Starting somewhere isn't getting a $10mil guard who still would play with crap. Starting somewhere is getting an OL coach that can develop the talent we have. Starting somewhere turns our players into average linemen. If you have that, THEN you can consider getting an elite player. If you overspend on an elite player without the appropriate cast to support them, you're pissing away money.

    It'd be no different than trying to get Brandon Marshall when we had Kyle Orton. Yeah, we'd have Brandon ****ing Marshall, but we'd be paying $10mil to a guy who might rack up a ton of stats, but it'd be because he's the only guy we can target with Kyle Orton. That kind of management just glosses over the issues you actually have.

    Tice, I'd imagine, has little say on who he gets in FA. And even still, he's shown that he'll stick with players for who knows what reason (Webb). And FURTHER, he'll try to shove a OL scheme down our throats with players that don't fit it (see: this season). That's bad coaching. That's why Tice sucks.

    And no, we haven't gone after elite talent lately because there have been like 3 elite players to hit FA in the past 3 seasons. And all would be acquired when we still had crap to work with otherwise. If you want to be a big spender in FA and fix our OL, you'd have to go the route JA went when he acquired Tait, Brown, Garza, and Miller. He bought an OL. Buying just one of those guys (or a comparable guy now) doesn't do **** but lower your available spending.
    all of this

  10. #955
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    Debo's absolutely right, and we were very fortunate that Ruben Brown was cut when he was and we were able to get him.

    With that being said, if it was that easy to get an offensive line, I'm sure we'd have done it. Frankly, the only person from the current line that I feel comfortable with is Lance Louis, and maybe Gabe if he can get that knee health. Besides that...everyone can go, or be used strictly for depth.

    I was a big promoter for signing Ryan Clady, but that's just too much money to throw at one guy when there's THAT many holes up front.
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  11. #956
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    I see what you're saying about wasting a ton of money to fill 1 of 5 holes. I just don't know how else we would build a solid OL, given our inability to develop OL talent since as long as I can remember.

  12. #957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full-Size Ditka View Post
    I see what you're saying about wasting a ton of money to fill 1 of 5 holes. I just don't know how else we would build a solid OL, given our inability to develop OL talent since as long as I can remember.
    FA is still a solid option you just can't go after big names ,and it's much more important to try and find those book ends thru the draft or development. We have to develop talent eventually or it's never gonna come together.

  13. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMac83 View Post
    FA is still a solid option you just can't go after big names ,and it's much more important to try and find those book ends thru the draft or development. We have to develop talent eventually or it's never gonna come together.
    This seems like the more likely scenario

  14. #959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full-Size Ditka View Post
    This seems like the more likely scenario
    Unfortunately thats just the way it is.

  15. #960
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    The past 3 seasons the oline has come together, this year is no different.

    Our greatest glory is not in never failing. But rather in rising back up every time we do.

    Find ya boi on twitter @MajorJensen33

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