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  1. #16
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    Firing Mike is stupid.


    YOUR ADD HERE!!!!

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GA16Angels View Post
    The failure of our season is due to players playing below their capabilities, not mismanagement. Could Scioscia have played Bourjos more? Yes. Could he have managed the bullpen a little better? Sure, but that bullpen was destined to fail. Do either of those account for a dismal April or August? Absolutely not. What this season ultimately comes down to is the struggles of Albert, Haren, Santana, and the bullpen. Two of those players most likely won't be back with us next year, I doubt Pujols will struggle next year as much as he did this year, and I'm sure the bullpen is the top priority for Dipo this off-season (after re-signing Greinke).
    Im not calling for Mikes head. But he definately deserves the responsibility of this seasons failure. He is a fantastic manager on certain fronts. But he is VERY poor on many too. Ill make a couple examples. He is VERY VERY poor with his pitching staff. He'll take out, just say Walden, whos struck out 3 in a row to bring in a Lefty, to pitch to a lefty. Even though the lefty up, actually hits LH'ers at .315 clip, and RH at .220....

    But most importantly, Mike needs to understand this is NOT little league. Not everyone on the roster MUST play an inning or 2 every game..... And even more-so, no other manager in history with a team this talented, has had this many lineups..... This team should have ONE lineup. PERIOD. And a backup lineup for the once a week to rest someone.

    ANd Bourjous? The dude can play the field. But my lord, Ive been saying this for 5yrs now: "HE CANT HIT"... ANd hes done nothing but prove me right in MLB

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightycjq View Post
    Im not calling for Mikes head. But he definately deserves the responsibility of this seasons failure. He is a fantastic manager on certain fronts. But he is VERY poor on many too. Ill make a couple examples. He is VERY VERY poor with his pitching staff. He'll take out, just say Walden, whos struck out 3 in a row to bring in a Lefty, to pitch to a lefty. Even though the lefty up, actually hits LH'ers at .315 clip, and RH at .220....

    But most importantly, Mike needs to understand this is NOT little league. Not everyone on the roster MUST play an inning or 2 every game..... And even more-so, no other manager in history with a team this talented, has had this many lineups..... This team should have ONE lineup. PERIOD. And a backup lineup for the once a week to rest someone.

    ANd Bourjous? The dude can play the field. But my lord, Ive been saying this for 5yrs now: "HE CANT HIT"... ANd hes done nothing but prove me right in MLB
    Obviously you didn't see him play last season.
    2011 Stats
    Games played- 147 Plate appearances- 552 At Bats- 502 Runs- 72
    Hits- 136 2B-26 3B- 11 HR- 12 RBI- 43 SB- 22 BA- .271 OBP- .327
    SLG- .438 OPS- .765

    So what are you basing your claim that "HE CANT HIT" off of? These seem like pretty good numbers to me for a guy that you claim cannot hit. Do you even know what you're talking about? Have you really been saying for 5 years that he cannot hit?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightycjq View Post
    Im not calling for Mikes head. But he definately deserves the responsibility of this seasons failure. He is a fantastic manager on certain fronts. But he is VERY poor on many too. Ill make a couple examples. He is VERY VERY poor with his pitching staff. He'll take out, just say Walden, whos struck out 3 in a row to bring in a Lefty, to pitch to a lefty. Even though the lefty up, actually hits LH'ers at .315 clip, and RH at .220....

    But most importantly, Mike needs to understand this is NOT little league. Not everyone on the roster MUST play an inning or 2 every game..... And even more-so, no other manager in history with a team this talented, has had this many lineups..... This team should have ONE lineup. PERIOD. And a backup lineup for the once a week to rest someone.

    ANd Bourjous? The dude can play the field. But my lord, Ive been saying this for 5yrs now: "HE CANT HIT"... ANd hes done nothing but prove me right in MLB
    I just can't agree with that. What you're basically saying is that we didn't make the playoffs because he used too many pitchers and and changed the lineup too much. That that caused our failure in both April and August, ignoring the fact that the Angels as a team had the lowest team average in all of baseball in April and our starting pitching pitched with an ERA above 5, second worst in the baseball, in August. We didn't make the playoffs because of inconsistency and lack of expected production. That's the players responsibilities, not the coaches.

    I'm not even going to get started on Bourjos with you. Just know you're wrong.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halo4life View Post
    amazing how someone never even posts here shows up at the end.

    our pitching coach should go....
    Exactly and a whole lotta good bullpen arms need to come.
    List of negative Lakers fans to watch out for this upcoming season on these forums. Even with Steve Nash or D12, they'd find something to complain about:

    lamar2006
    LALakersKC
    Bryan12
    evadatam5150
    mstrdrk
    so_cal_watcher
    Lakersfan2483
    Teeboy1487
    midwestlaker75
    silvteg98
    J4KOP99
    SUPREME LA
    Vinylman

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUSTYTROMBONE View Post
    So what are you basing your claim that "HE CANT HIT" off of? These seem like pretty good numbers to me for a guy that you claim cannot hit. Do you even know what you're talking about? Have you really been saying for 5 years that he cannot hit?
    So you're saying he "can hit" and basing that off a claim of one season?

    Lets take a look at his whole MLB career, as breif as it is. His .247 .703 career line is quite impressive.

    Now lets take a look at his minor league career. And even though I have the stats, and their corrections here, I am not going to post them. I am going to make you do the work, and MAYBE, JUST MAYBE you'll learn something..... But I will hint to this, his minor league career, adjusted for his park factors, is pretty weak to boot. (And Im being kind saying "pretty weak")

    I know it's tough when you argue something without doing research first. So I give you a pass this time. NEXT TIME, promise you will research and entire career and not just one season when determining a player's worth.
    Because your thought process on Bourjos makes Brady Anderson a power hitter. And Adam Kennedy a batting title contender, and Fernando Rodney and Mariano Rivera equal.... LOL

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightycjq View Post
    So you're saying he "can hit" and basing that off a claim of one season?

    Lets take a look at his whole MLB career, as breif as it is. His .247 .703 career line is quite impressive.

    Now lets take a look at his minor league career. And even though I have the stats, and their corrections here, I am not going to post them. I am going to make you do the work, and MAYBE, JUST MAYBE you'll learn something..... But I will hint to this, his minor league career, adjusted for his park factors, is pretty weak to boot. (And Im being kind saying "pretty weak")

    I know it's tough when you argue something without doing research first. So I give you a pass this time. NEXT TIME, promise you will research and entire career and not just one season when determining a player's worth.
    Because your thought process on Bourjos makes Brady Anderson a power hitter. And Adam Kennedy a batting title contender, and Fernando Rodney and Mariano Rivera equal.... LOL
    Please explain to me how you're "adjusting" his stats for park factors? And I could give a rats *** about how he performed in the minors. All that's important is how he performs in the majors and in the only season in which he got a full amount of playing time he hit .271/.327/.438. Given his rate of defense I wouldn't mind if Bourjos hit with an OPS exactly at .700 or maybe even below .700, but he has hit above that which is more than enough to convince me that he deserves full playing time. No one is saying that he's a great hitter, I don't think anyone believes that, but he is an adequate hitter who has spectacular defense. He had a WAR of 4.8 in 2011 which she justify him earning a starting spot in the lineup.

    Also, Fernando Rodney just had a better season than Rivera has had since 2008 and even that season is debatable.
    Last edited by GA16Angels; 10-10-2012 at 01:14 AM.

  8. #23
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    GA16 with the K.O.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GA16Angels View Post
    Wait, you were calling for it in 2009? When we were in first place of the division and went to the ALCS?

    Also, I said this in another thread, but if you take out the entire month of April, a month in which Aybar, Pujols, Santana, Kendrick, Callaspo/Izturis, and the entire bullpen struggled, we would be in first place now two up in the loss column. How is it Scioscia's fault that none of those players were producing at their expected level? If you give me a legit reason, I will stop defending Scioscia in this thread.
    I only say the past four seasons because the players in 2009 really came up big to help mask Scioscia's poor play calling/pitching changes. I'm not sure that removing the month of April would guarantee the Angels being in first place; not that sure how mathematically correct that is, but that could be true. Regardless, it doesn't justify that Scioscia was a better manager or reduced his poor decisions. I'm not blaming Scioscia for the players not producing, for the most part. My point is this: any manager should put his team in the best situation to win every game. (Winning every game isn't very realistic, but isn't it every team's goal?) This, then, is what Scioscia didn't do because of micromanagement. The poor decisions didn't have to be huge either. The times where he put the contact play on, pulled a pitcher too soon when he was doing well with another arm that gave up runs, or left a pitcher in too long after not doing well (a.k.a. mismanaging the bullpen.) Those would be the two dominant errors he constantly made in the past four seasons that left the Angels short of the postseason, and I'll stay away from the 'small ball' area. :-P Sure, if some players don't do their part to help the team, then that falls on them. But Scioscia also hasn't done his part as the manager to set his team up in the best position to win games they should have, in my opinion. Scioscia isn't a bad manager; he just isn't a good fit for the Angels anymore.

  10. #25
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    Scioscia does micro-manage a lot. And that's something that's very effective when you have a less talented, light hitting team like he's had a lot of those successful years here. But I think that when you have a team as talented as we have now, they have to be allowed to play out and let their natural skills win games instead of trying to figure out ways to make sure their deficiencies don't lose the game, if that makes sense. He's never had a team this talented, and I think he needs to adjust his approach to in-game managing a bit to reflect that.

    He shouldn't be fired, but if he loses the team games again because of his micro-managing and they miss the playoffs then maybe he should.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GardenGrove View Post
    Scioscia does micro-manage a lot. And that's something that's very effective when you have a less talented, light hitting team like he's had a lot of those successful years here. But I think that when you have a team as talented as we have now, they have to be allowed to play out and let their natural skills win games instead of trying to figure out ways to make sure their deficiencies don't lose the game, if that makes sense. He's never had a team this talented, and I think he needs to adjust his approach to in-game managing a bit to reflect that.

    He shouldn't be fired, but if he loses the team games again because of his micro-managing and they miss the playoffs then maybe he should.
    I can agree with that approach. Perhaps firing Scioscia would be a bit premature, but I would like to see him let the boys play a tight game out by letting the reigns loose a bit. He'll also be in the hot seat next season. I continue to hold strong to my other claim, however, that Butcher should be replaced. If he really is the one calling the shots as a pitching coach (don't think he is), then his replacement should come sooner than that of Hatcher's as the hitting coach. I wonder what "words of wisdom" Butcher would give a pitcher each trip made out to the mound... :P

  12. #27
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    Half the games I watched he was calling pitches from the dugout. If you have to do that, time to fire Butcher. We've been on a steady decline the last 3 years and being hamstringed by bad contracts on bad players.

    If Scioscia couldn't manage a team with this much talent, he needs to go. Hire Fracona.

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