Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 52
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    981
    vCash
    1500
    Seems pretty split, maybe majority saying that Helton won't. Ya chipper is better, but to say Helton isn't even close and chipper is in another class.... I just don't think so.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,868
    vCash
    1500
    Chipper has also won a lot more than Helton. Not saying it is Helton's fault but Chipper is connect to a historical franchise. Chipper is connected to a franchise that won 14 straight division titles (I know Chipper wasn't there for the first 3) The Braves have one of the biggest followings in the mlb and the Rox don't.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    981
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by lavell12 View Post
    Chipper has also won a lot more than Helton. Not saying it is Helton's fault but Chipper is connect to a historical franchise. Chipper is connected to a franchise that won 14 straight division titles (I know Chipper wasn't there for the first 3) The Braves have one of the biggest followings in the mlb and the Rox don't.
    i think this is it. other fans respect chipper because he was great and his teams were usually great. helton was great, but his teams, other than the NL Champ team in 2007, were not

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Heart of Long Island
    Posts
    7,312
    vCash
    1500
    In my eyes, Helton just isn't/wasn't as popular as Chipper was.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,052
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by UPRock View Post
    He should, he's the best Rockie ever and he's loyal.
    Best Rocky ever? If Walker was there his whole career, it would easily be him.

    Loyal? Big deal. He can be happy with his Rockies HOF Number retirement, because he's never getting inside the MLB HOF. Ever.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    18,774
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by CubsBullsBucs View Post
    Seems pretty split, maybe majority saying that Helton won't. Ya chipper is better, but to say Helton isn't even close and chipper is in another class.... I just don't think so.
    Chipper has a better bat for his career (142 wRC+ vs 133 for Helton) while playing a tougher defensive position. If you want to use WAR, it's 90.4 for Jones vs 61.3 for Helton.

    Helton's a great player, but Jones is without a doubt in a completely different class.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    I'm Gonna Walk Hell Track, So Cal
    Posts
    1,069
    vCash
    1500
    If I'm at his final series in LA, SF, SD, or whereve I will stand up and clap for him if he has announced his intent to retire. I don't expect most of the people around me to though.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Bothell
    Posts
    12,549
    vCash
    1500
    At home, Chippers wRC+ is 21 better, and his wOBA is 31 better. Obviously Heltons are larger, but I don't think it's fair to act like he was a Coors mirage.

    He is still a .367 wOBA, 111 wRC+ player on the road. Give him the same home boost as Chipper (a more traditional split) rather than what he got from Coors and he is at .398 wOBA and 132 wRC+ at home. Pretty damn good still.

    That being said, Chipper is the better, and more well thought of player.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    447
    vCash
    1500
    no and no...chipper jones is truely a special player, one of the best third basemen of all time...coming from a met fan

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,052
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    At home, Chippers wRC+ is 21 better, and his wOBA is 31 better. Obviously Heltons are larger, but I don't think it's fair to act like he was a Coors mirage.

    He is still a .367 wOBA, 111 wRC+ player on the road. Give him the same home boost as Chipper (a more traditional split) rather than what he got from Coors and he is at .398 wOBA and 132 wRC+ at home. Pretty damn good still.

    That being said, Chipper is the better, and more well thought of player.
    Fair?

    At home: OPS+ 154 (Joe DiMaggio, Frank Thomas, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron)

    On Road: OPS+ 115 (Don Buford, Lee May, John Jaha)

    Average player +4 at home.

    I'm sorry, but the park corrections for Coors are for average hitters. Bichette, Burks, Walker, Big Cat - all put up mammoth seasons in that park. None of them did as well elsewhere - with a couple of odd years.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Bothell
    Posts
    12,549
    vCash
    1500
    Most players do better at home then on the road. Like I said, Chippers got a 21 wRC+ differential.

    130 wRC+ on the road (Jim Edmonds, John Olerud, Ken Phelps). Yeah, I can use fangraphs and find some random names too.

    I said Chipper is much better than Helton. But it's not like Helton is terrible on the road. Like I said, give him the same home split and Chipper and he still looks good. You can't assume that if he played for a different team that he would have the same numbers as he does on the road.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    11,028
    vCash
    3600
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    Career numbers:

    wOBA:
    Home - .427
    Away - .367

    OPS:
    Home - 1.013
    Away - .846

    wRC+:
    Home - 151
    Away - 111

    Sure, there's a dropoff from home to away, but honestly did anyone expect there not to be? It's coors field.. He's still been great/above average on the road, not to mention his great fielding and loyalty to one team throughout his career.
    Agreed. The Coors field argument will definitely hurt him, but still a very good player. Very nice guy and a true professional as well.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    981
    vCash
    1500
    Loyal as well. The rox asked him if he wanted to be traded to a contender and he said no.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,097
    vCash
    1500
    turner field is difficult to hit HRs...

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wethersfield/Storrs, CT
    Posts
    8,879
    vCash
    1500
    I think Chipper is on another level than Helton, but i still think both make the hall. Helton still has a .964 OPS for his career while playing solid D. If you dont let him in the hall i dont see how any Rockies player could make it because of the advantage their field gives them. Helton, IMO, will get in, but hes not going to be considered top 10 or anything close to that.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •