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  1. #91
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    I think his expectations for Fiers, and the guys that HAVENT EVEN PROVEN THEMSELVES in the MLB, are waaaaay to high. Im upset. We need pitching. Melvin is never willing to pay pitchers. Parras expectations were way to high. He cracked. The same thing always happens. We need another proven ace who can carry the work load while the young guys can develop, instead of expecting the young guys to get 15 wins.
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  2. #92
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    Parra is a ****ing *****. I rarely saw any fire out of him. When it got rough for him he always looked like he was going to break into tears.

    What do you want Melvin to pay and to whom? The comments they've made about the ridiculous prices are true. They're far better off to get a bunch of cheap guys that are replaceable rather than trying to recover from a failed big signing like Riske, Suppan, Wolf, or K-Rod.

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  3. #93
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    Why not Edwin Jackson? Hes young. Not a guy who will play for a year and be washed up. Kyle Lohse. Anybody. If we ever ever want to be legit contenders, we need to have good proven arms. Not "Cheap" guys we can get decent seasons from. We need to spend money, or trade some prospects for proven arms.
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  4. #94
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    It's bittersweet for me, I like how we are not giving this ridiculous money, but at the same time I don't want to WASTE the NL's best offense.

    I feel like next year will be UGLY.
    Apologize

  5. #95
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    I'm still hopeful they'll pull something together to improve the rotation. I'd still be very surprised to see the rotation start as gallardo, estrada, fiers, narveson, and peralta.

    If they're going into the season with that as the starting rotation they may as well start trading away guys like Hart, Gomez, Weeks, and Ramirez.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewboy288 View Post
    I think his expectations for Fiers, and the guys that HAVENT EVEN PROVEN THEMSELVES in the MLB, are waaaaay to high. Im upset. We need pitching. Melvin is never willing to pay pitchers. Parras expectations were way to high. He cracked. The same thing always happens. We need another proven ace who can carry the work load while the young guys can develop, instead of expecting the young guys to get 15 wins.
    First off, how can you say Melvin is never willing to pay pitching? He offered Sabathia the biggest contract in club history at the time. We've signed guys like Jeff Suppan and Randy Wolf (who by the way are basically the type of guys who are generally available on the free agent market for a decent price.) We traded away some of our best prospects for guys like Grienke and Marcum. We've gone all in with pitching before.

    And what proven "ace" is out there that you want to get? I'd rather have a plethora of young somewhat unproven pitching for cheap then a stable of overpaid "inning" eaters who don't have great stuff but are coming off a decent year and get way overpaid.

    Quote Originally Posted by behnke2017 View Post
    Parra is a ****ing *****. I rarely saw any fire out of him. When it got rough for him he always looked like he was going to break into tears.

    What do you want Melvin to pay and to whom? The comments they've made about the ridiculous prices are true. They're far better off to get a bunch of cheap guys that are replaceable rather than trying to recover from a failed big signing like Riske, Suppan, Wolf, or K-Rod.
    Exactly, at least someone gets it. And if our young pitching doesn't pan out all that well, we still have the financial flexibility to take on salary in a trade, unlike when you sign a "proven" guy who ends up sucking.

    Quote Originally Posted by brewboy288 View Post
    Why not Edwin Jackson? Hes young. Not a guy who will play for a year and be washed up. Kyle Lohse. Anybody. If we ever ever want to be legit contenders, we need to have good proven arms. Not "Cheap" guys we can get decent seasons from. We need to spend money, or trade some prospects for proven arms.
    Edwin Jackson is almost 30. That's not ancient by any stretch of the imagination, but that's not really young either. And he's vastly overrated in my books. He's basically a 4 ERA kind of guy who will have dominant performances but will also have awful performances. I would actually take Marcum over Jackson in a heartbeat, especially since I'm guessing someone doles out too big of contract to Jackson.

    Lohse is coming off of 1 solid year and 1 very good year. But look at his career before that, it was average at best. Plus he's not a spring chicken either.

    Also, I think something that isn't neccesarily a great stat or comparison, but I think it sort of puts guys in context. I look at the baseballreference.com similarity scores of pitchers. And a guy like Lohse career resembles that of guys like Bronson Arroyo, Jason Marquis, Brad Penny and guys like that. Yeah those are solid pitchers, but is that really what you want to spend something like $15 million a year on?

  7. #97
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    I'd rather Marcum hang out there til the middle of January and sign him cheaper than they tried rather than anyone else out there.

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  8. #98
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    Well guys, with our pitching.. looks like a 79-81 win season.

    There is Gallardo..followed by 4 guys who haven't started an entire season, and then Chris Narveson who doesn't have the health to do it.

    Not saying we should have signed Dempster or anything like that, but looking at that depth chart is scary. I didn't even mention the bullpen. You can't trust any of those guys honestly.

    Thank God we have the offense that we have.
    Last edited by Brew Crew; 12-14-2012 at 12:48 AM.

  9. #99
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    2012-13 Offseason Thread

    Ya like I said. If they want to go into next season with the current starters they should just trade hart , Ramirez, Gomez, and rickie.

  10. #100
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    There no doubting that we need a proven veteran in the rotation but I'm more worried about the bullpen. The only name I heard us in on was Jason Grilli, to a degree I can agree with the addition by subtraction but if we are going to rely on what we have now I don't see the pen being much better.

    With only 10-15 to spend I don't see us getting in on Jackson or Lohse. I would be interested in Francisco Liriano, he does have top of the rotation stuff or could be a good setup man from the pen if his command remains an issue.

  11. #101
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    Our rotation consists of a number 2 starter and a bunch of 4's and 5's. Boy I would love to see the strategy, because it sounds like Melvin isn't even exploring trades. I mean it be nice to know that he is trying to actually improve the team.
    Apologize

  12. #102
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    Because ace pitchers are so easy to trade for. To get Grienke, we had to give up to young, controlable major league level players in Cain and Escobar, plus our top pitching prospects (who was highly rated around the league) and another high upside prospect in Jeffres.

    To get James Shields, the Royals had to give up one of the top prospects in baseball in Myers, arguably the top hitting prospect in baseball and that same top pitcher we gave them, who's pretty much on the fringe of the majors and still considered a top prospect.

    So my question for you then is, who exactly are we going to trade for, and what are we going to give up? I guess I can answer that for you, we don't have the ammo for an ace pitcher. You need young, major league ready talent, probably a top positional prospect and a top pitching prospect to get a real good pitcher in a trade.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucky Woods View Post
    Our rotation consists of a number 2 starter and a bunch of 4's and 5's. Boy I would love to see the strategy, because it sounds like Melvin isn't even exploring trades. I mean it be nice to know that he is trying to actually improve the team.
    It's the same guys that put them in contention last year. The team is basically going cheap to see what happens. Most of us sense an utter failure but you never know what you're gonna get out Fiers, Rogers, Estrada, Thornburg, and Peralta. The batting order is solid so if the rotation can put in solid games and the bullpen doesn't screw it up they'll be in good shape. As much as we'd all like to see some moves, for payroll flexibility in 2014 and beyond they gotta do what they've done this offseason. I wouldn't want any of the multiple year deals signed this offseason on the Brewers. Dempster was probably it and I'm not a big fan of him.

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  14. #104
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    This team, as constructed, is not a .500 team. They're just not. Everything would have to go right for them to put together a winning season.

    The prices to improve are too high. Whether that be prospects of $$$, pitching is too expensive. I think it's fine they want to go with Fiers, Estrada, Rogers, Peralta, and Thornburg. Just make moves to be better in the future. They've shown no indication they're looking to extend Hart. Frankly, I don't want them to. Most teams looks for a CF now have one, but did you see the $$$ and prospects being shelled out for CFs? Denard Span and Carlos Gomez have been essentially the same production wise. I would keep Aoki because he's going to be paid so little in 2013 and there's a reasonable chance he's just as good as last year.

    Even though Ramirez and Weeks are under team control for several more years, it might make sense to move them for the right pieces.

    Standing pat should not be an option. Make moves to get better now or make moves to be better in 2015.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Because ace pitchers are so easy to trade for. To get Grienke, we had to give up to young, controlable major league level players in Cain and Escobar, plus our top pitching prospects (who was highly rated around the league) and another high upside prospect in Jeffres.

    To get James Shields, the Royals had to give up one of the top prospects in baseball in Myers, arguably the top hitting prospect in baseball and that same top pitcher we gave them, who's pretty much on the fringe of the majors and still considered a top prospect.

    So my question for you then is, who exactly are we going to trade for, and what are we going to give up? I guess I can answer that for you, we don't have the ammo for an ace pitcher. You need young, major league ready talent, probably a top positional prospect and a top pitching prospect to get a real good pitcher in a trade.
    When did I say ace? I also meant it be nice to see Melvin explore a trade, not make one. You never know the price until you check.

    Who else thought we should have dealt Yo to Kansas City? If we got the same package TB got it would be a no brainer. Right??? Unfortunately we have a front office that is delusional if they think they could contend this year.

    I wish we had a young G.M.
    Last edited by Chucky Woods; 12-15-2012 at 10:00 PM.
    Apologize

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