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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    They obviously play faster and more crisp without Josh because he dominates the ball and tries to do too much. What Drew is saying is Josh needs to buy into what the rest of this group is built to do, and yes I agree with that. He will never say they are better without Josh or anyone else -- we know Drew doesn't have the cojones or job security to act tough about any player.

    The bottom line is 90% of the Hawks problems come down to bad offense, specifically 3 basic areas:
    (1) FTs
    (2) offensive rebounding
    (3) pace/speed.

    Josh is partly to blame in all three because:

    (1) He doesn't attack the rim enough to draw fouls (neither does Al or anyone else, but Josh handles the basketball more than anyone so the burden is on him. A player who handles it the most on any team has to get to the line as much as possible).

    (2) He doesn't help on the offensive glass enough because he stays out of the perimeter trying to facilitate, when that is supposed to be Teague's (or Lou's or Devin's) job. They don't have much size on the wing as is, and that's one huge reason why the Hawks keep getting outrebounded even by inferior teams like Detroit.

    (3) Even though he is an exceptional passer, his ballstopping often slows down the game and makes it boring because he doesn't make quick decisions/moves to get his shot. This roster is built to run and kick out to shooters, not slow half-court ball. That's what Drew is talking about "We put emphasis on pace and getting out and running." and he's absolutely right.

    I can't speak for anyone else but I do not have a vendetta against Josh. I am tough on the highest paid players on all of my teams. You see how often I got into arguments with Braves forum posters when I kept criticizing Chipper Jones? They get all sensitive but I say all of this stuff because I want the best for my teams, it's never personal. I always expect the most from the guys who are supposed to be leaders, and with the Hawks that falls on Josh. I remember you were upset when Ivan got himself suspended also so this Josh situation should piss you off even more since he's clearly one of your favorite players. If he wants to be know as a leader, he can't act like this and must take responsibility for whatever it is he isn't doing himself. This is what he signed up for when he wanted to be named a captain. Like I said, the team still has a solid record so this kind of nonsense shouldn't even be happening.
    Obviously you don't know me personally, but I was in the same boat about Chipper. My family thought I hate him, never was the case, but when you are the best or perceived to be the best (highest paid or highest ceiling what have you) then you have to show up, you have to be the lead by example guy and so forth. Chipper went through the motions as a leader (same with Josh) until late in his career when basically him and Bobby were the only ones left and he had to on some young teams. Chipper is one of the greatest Braves of all-time and one of the greatest 3rd basemen of all time.

    Everyone always hated on Joe because of Joe and his game not living up to his contract or accumen as a player, but Joe never seemed to be disgruntled or immature. The comment about the fans and how why should they as players care about the fans was really the only thing he was ever a you know what about. The Hawks are not better without Josh, but they play better without him. Especially on the 3 areas you noted above.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    Chris Vivlamore (AJC beat writer) just posted his interview with Josh:

    ajc

    His response to the first question doesn't have the same tone and outlook as the statement attributed to him after the suspension was announced. We'll see how it goes from here.
    No not at all Bravo95 I agree. All his comments by his agent also spark some thoughts. I wonder who he got into it with....

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by HulkHorford15
    Everyone always hated on Joe because of Joe and his game not living up to his contract or accumen as a player, but Joe never seemed to be disgruntled or immature. The comment about the fans and how why should they as players care about the fans was really the only thing he was ever a you know what about.
    Well I was tough on Joe also, he didn't get a pass from me. He never really showed love to the city and fan base, and the front office made the mistake of handing the keys (and $120M) to the franchise to a guy who the fans never embraced. He had to go. At least Josh and Al show that they care on some level, they just go about it different ways. Josh doesn't hide his emotions at all, but he's gotta keep that stuff under control as a captain because he's only hurting himself and the team.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    Well I was tough on Joe also, he didn't get a pass from me. He never really showed love to the city and fan base, and the front office made the mistake of handing the keys (and $120M) to the franchise to a guy who the fans never embraced. He had to go. At least Josh and Al show that they care on some level, they just go about it different ways. Josh doesn't hide his emotions at all, but he's gotta keep that stuff under control as a captain because he's only hurting himself and the team.
    ^^^ This I agree with.

    I never blamed Joe for taking the big deal, that was Sunds mistake. Heck, he over paide every body. It's two ways to look at it I guess.

    I'd be lying and I think most would if I said I didn't think Smith was the most critisized Hawks over the last 5 years.

    I'd also be lying if I said I didn't think any of it where warrented. He has to get it under control or find a better way to express it.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB75
    Smith was the most critisized Hawks over the last 5 years.
    He deserved a lot of that criticism. Ask fans of other teams -- they saw the same frustrating player who took bad shots, made bad decisions, and threw temper tantrums on the court. They laughed at him. But even then, I don't believe Josh was more criticized than Joe, especially after Joe signed the massive extension, no way. The day the perception began to change IMO was Game 7 in Boston in '08. Once the Hawks started actually playing in "big games" after years of missing the playoffs and Joe started showing that he wasn't a big game performer, the fan base turned on him for good.

  6. #231
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    Eight NBA coaches began season on final year of their contracts. Three [of those 8] didn't make it to All-Star break: Avery Johnson, Skiles and Gentry
    Indy's Frank Vogel just got two year-extension & Utah's Ty Corbin saw 2013-14 option picked up in October, leaving three last-year coaches
    Last remaining NBA coaches operating on last-year deals are Vinny Del Negro (Clippers), Larry Drew (Hawks) and Lionel Hollins (Grizzlies)
    Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine)

  7. #232
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    Does anyone think Horford is actually hurt? Weird that Smith out against Nets, Horford plays. Horford out against Nets, Smith plays. Wonder if Ferry wants a look at how the team plays with one and then the other?

    McGOAT

  8. #233
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    Well Lou is hurt. Teague playing well.

    McGOAT

  9. #234
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    Yeah, liking the way Teague playing...

  10. #235
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    The FT disparity hurt but can't do much about calls on the road. Almost pulled it off, needed more help on the glass.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Silver&Black*
    Does anyone think Horford is actually hurt? Weird that Smith out against Nets, Horford plays. Horford out against Nets, Smith plays. Wonder if Ferry wants a look at how the team plays with one and then the other?
    Nah I doubt that, especially since they are already shorthanded.

  12. #237
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    X-rays on Lou Williams right knee were negative. Will wait to get to Atlanta for more definitive tests. #ATLHawks
    Lou Williams still will get MRI, etc. That will be the definitive diagnosis. #ATLHawks
    Chris Vivlamore / ajc
    Last edited by Bravo95; 01-18-2013 at 10:36 PM.

  13. #238
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    Hope Harris is ok. Smith had a good game, but we couldn't get a shot to go in late. Good game though.

    McGOAT

  14. #239
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    Lou Will out for the season

    This sucks.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugafan View Post
    Lou Will out for the season

    This sucks.
    What?!

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