This isn't a debate yet. Bird.
The Human Highlight Film
John Havlicek (very underated player)
Elgin Baylor (best rebounder on the list)
This isn't a debate yet. Bird.
Larry Bird who I consider the 2nd best player I eve saw play after MJ.
Then Lebron. All the rest are a ways below. I never saw Baylor play.
I'm curious to see what the folks who voted for Baylor, Pippen and Barry have to say.
Baylor could flat out score. He is perhaps the best scorer on this list (though obviously there were more possesions back then) and he is also likely the best rebounder on this list (and even though there were more possessions back then, his rebounding numbers are still head-and-shoulders above anybody on this list).
And when it comes to Haveleck and Dr. J., I agree with those who are in the camp that they can be considers SG just as easily as SF, but as most people seem to rank them as SF I put them on the list. I mean, really, is there that much of a difference between a SF and a SG? The SG has more iin common with the SF than the PG, and the SF has more in commone with the SG than he does with the PF. They are wing players. When Jordan came back to play for Washington he moved to SF, and was there really that big a difference in the role he and Pippen played on Chicago? They both brought the ball. Jordan's game was influenced by Dr. J, and lets face it, lots of teams will play two SF or two SG at the same time. McGrady and Carter could both play both positions confortably. I think anybody who knows the game can recognize the similarities between the two positions. Putting a hard definition on the SF or SG position is more for casual fans to understand where guys are supposed to be on the court.
That said... I voted for LBJ on the assumption that he's going to continue to play at this level until he's at least 32. But I would not argue with somebody who picked Bird or Baylor. I do scratch my head at people who pick Dr. J though (in part because I think his ABA numbers are WAT inflated because he put them up in an inferior league).
And Chronz, I don't think it was that Bird didn't take care of his body, I think it was just that his body gave out on him. We see health problems in guys like Yao Ming and say: of course, the human body isn't supposed to be that big; but with a guy like Bird, his body is still a LOT bigger than the typical body and he's playing professional basketball for years... it's going to wear you down. Some people's body are more athletic and can handle it, but we've seen time and time again that guys who haven't even been in the league that long (Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Greg Oden, Ralph Sampson) face severe injuries and has their careers put on hold for a long time or are completely cut off. It is a mircale we don't see more cases like the Baron Davis knee-blow-out this season, or D-Rose's injury. These guys are all playing on borrowed time. Bird's back just caught up with him. I don't think it was a conditioning thing. Anyways... that's a big side note.
I seriously want to hear from the guys who voted for Baylor though.
I came here to chew bubble gum and kick @$$. And I'm all out of bubble gum.Everything is a self-portrait.
lol @ dr j.
Larry than Bron, altho i voted for Bron.
Miami Heat- (4-1) So much for sweeping our way to a title
Miami Dolphins- (0-0) Awaiting new season
Miami Marlins- (10-24) When will the suffering end?
UM Hurricanes- (7-5) 1st in ACC Coast
I'm not mad at anyone who chooses Bird but people sayiong there is no argument are off their rockers.
LeBron has played 9 seasons, and Bird has played 13. LeBron has 2 less finals appearances, 2 less titles and an equal number of MVP's.
Defensively LeBron is a no contest against Bird. As a playmaker it's close and LeBron is actually averaging more APG on a career basis. Bird was an incredible scorer and shooter but he had nowhere close to the athleticism or strength LBJ has.
LeBron's top 5 PER's: 28.1, 29.1, 30.7, 31.1, 31.7 (led league 5x in stat.)
Bird's top 5 PER's. 24.2, 25.6, 26.4, 26.5, 27.8 (lead league 2x in stat.)
(As a side note LeBrons 30.3 PER over this past post season and inhuman 37.4 in 08-09 absolutely smoke Birds post season highs of 23.9 and 26.3)
See I told you guys that there were guys out there who actually believe this. And you say the Laker/Kobe fans are bad.
"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry [Bird], called up Magic [Johnson] and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team.'" "In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys." -- Michael Jordan
Put Larry Bird on those Cavs teams in his prime and he wouldn't have carried them like Lebron did...
Parish was a top 15 Center, but Jabbar at him for breakfast. Parish couldn't hack Moses either, or Hakeem, or Robinson. Jeez.... that's not good.
DJ? Oh please, DJ was a very fine player - but do get some tape of him against Magic and Jordan - not so good.
Also Walton was a total retread, and had one pretty good year for the Celts.
Using rosters is a bit biased to 80's teams. There are 3 Celt, 4 Laker, 2 Piston, and 1 76'er team that might be able to claim they had the deepest teams of all time.
BTW, when did McAdoo play with Dr. J? Bobby Jones, Mo Cheeks are more like it.
Why are you listing McAdoo with Magic? He was never one of the top 3 Lakers in that time.