The Evidence Against Evolution Part 1: Second Law of Thermodynamics

[nastynice]

I'm not really sure what either of those have to do with Entropy or the Second Law of Thermodynamics. And that website is kind of... goofy, at best. Lots of attempts at logical arguments instead of scientific ones, lots of analogies, seems to be little real discussion of any evidence.

But, as I said, it's not really related to the Second Law.

As to your question about it, the ID argument goes that without something keeping everything from descending into chaos, the Second Law says that instead of everything going from single-celled organisms to multi-celled organisms with multiple organs and complex biological systems, it would basically descend into chaos. Obviously we all know what they think it is keeping that from happening, but the point - and the point of this thread - is that they get the basic premise wrong, and nothing "extra" is needed to keep life from falling into disorder.

yea, my mistake, I thought what you were doing all inclusive discussion, but now I see you're breaking it up separately. We can just ignore the things I brought up, maybe they will come up in another thread.

Evolution or not, doesn't life go against the 2nd law regardless? Seems an illogical argument to me.

[GGGGG-Men]

And that website is kind of... goofy, at best. Lots of attempts at logical arguments instead of scientific ones, lots of analogies, seems to be little real discussion of any evidence.

Made it further than me. I couldn't get past the title on the page: "Chimpanzees become Human?"

[DenButsu]

Made it further than me. I couldn't get past the title on the page: "Chimpanzees become Human?"

Amazing how many people don't understand the basic concept of shared ancestry. Or the fact that we didn't "come from" apes,we ARE apes.

[flips333]

Amazing how many people don't understand the basic concept of shared ancestry. Or the fact that we didn't "come from" apes,we ARE apes.

I'm an ape? I have this new idea for a movie. It's called The planet of the Apes. It's just like real lfe, But it's called planet of the apes/.

[DenButsu]

I'm an ape? I have this new idea for a movie. It's called The planet of the Apes. It's just like real lfe, But it's called planet of the apes/.

Yes, humans are apes.

[flips333]

Yes, humans are apes.

please tell me you know I was kidding.

[DenButsu]

please tell me you know I was kidding.

Obviously about Planet of the Apes. But with evolution deniers, what they actually claim is so far out that it's almost impossible to parody. I mean, the banana fits perfectly into the hand and crocoduck type stuff is really out there. So it's hard to know a poe.

[Freakazoid]

The creationist argument is that the second law of thermodynamics says that spontaneous change is in the direction of increasing disorder. There can be no spontaneous buildup of the complex from the simple because that would be in the direction of increasing order. As a result, TOE is wrong and creationism must be right.

I don't understand how this is even a viable argument considering that one of the important mechanisms of evolution (natural selection) stresses for an open system.

[flips333]

Obviously about Planet of the Apes. But with evolution deniers, what they actually claim is so far out that it's almost impossible to parody. I mean, the banana fits perfectly into the hand and crocoduck type stuff is really out there. So it's hard to know a poe.

It's best to just assume that people are kidding when they say they don't believe in evolution. Less angry and disappointed in the human race = happier.

[nastynice]

It's best to just assume that people are kidding when they say they don't believe in evolution. Less angry and disappointed in the human race = happier.

hey!

[Freakazoid]

it's best to just assume that people are kidding when they say they don't believe in evolution. Less angry and disappointed in the human race = happier.

hey!

lol

[Patman]

Just wanted to add, that if the easier to understand definition of the law is used the discussion wouldn't crop up.

Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location.

In the end it doesn't mean more then if you have a closed system, temperature, pressure etc balances out in the system so that there is a even distribution in the system. Again to use this argument the misconceptions about both the laws of thermodynamic and the ToE, need to be huge.

[Pacerlive]

The key part that those trying to use the Second Law to disprove the TOE ignore is the closed system. The universe as a whole is a closed system, as far as we know, which leads us to believe that there will be an eventual Heat Death of the Universe.

So in the closed system of the universe why would life exist?

[natepro]

So in the closed system of the universe why would life exist?

Because nothing about Thermodynamics says there wouldn't be.

[Pacerlive]

Let me just take it a step further and play along.

Really what your talking about is negative entropy and in an open system nothing contradicts negative entropy when considering the second law. So now I pose this question what organisms are best at creating negative entropy in an open system?