Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 56
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,917
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    I'm not really sure what either of those have to do with Entropy or the Second Law of Thermodynamics. And that website is kind of... goofy, at best. Lots of attempts at logical arguments instead of scientific ones, lots of analogies, seems to be little real discussion of any evidence.

    But, as I said, it's not really related to the Second Law.

    As to your question about it, the ID argument goes that without something keeping everything from descending into chaos, the Second Law says that instead of everything going from single-celled organisms to multi-celled organisms with multiple organs and complex biological systems, it would basically descend into chaos. Obviously we all know what they think it is keeping that from happening, but the point - and the point of this thread - is that they get the basic premise wrong, and nothing "extra" is needed to keep life from falling into disorder.
    yea, my mistake, I thought what you were doing all inclusive discussion, but now I see you're breaking it up separately. We can just ignore the things I brought up, maybe they will come up in another thread.

    Evolution or not, doesn't life go against the 2nd law regardless? Seems an illogical argument to me.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the smog meets the shore
    Posts
    31,751
    vCash
    1490
    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    And that website is kind of... goofy, at best. Lots of attempts at logical arguments instead of scientific ones, lots of analogies, seems to be little real discussion of any evidence.
    Made it further than me. I couldn't get past the title on the page: "Chimpanzees become Human?"

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Shakedown Street, Japan
    Posts
    30,277
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Made it further than me. I couldn't get past the title on the page: "Chimpanzees become Human?"
    Amazing how many people don't understand the basic concept of shared ancestry. Or the fact that we didn't "come from" apes,we ARE apes.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Baltimore now, but born and raised on the south side of Chicago.
    Posts
    6,803
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Amazing how many people don't understand the basic concept of shared ancestry. Or the fact that we didn't "come from" apes,we ARE apes.
    I'm an ape? I have this new idea for a movie. It's called The planet of the Apes. It's just like real lfe, But it's called planet of the apes/.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Shakedown Street, Japan
    Posts
    30,277
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I'm an ape? I have this new idea for a movie. It's called The planet of the Apes. It's just like real lfe, But it's called planet of the apes/.
    Yes, humans are apes.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Baltimore now, but born and raised on the south side of Chicago.
    Posts
    6,803
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Yes, humans are apes.
    please tell me you know I was kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Shakedown Street, Japan
    Posts
    30,277
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    please tell me you know I was kidding.
    Obviously about Planet of the Apes. But with evolution deniers, what they actually claim is so far out that it's almost impossible to parody. I mean, the banana fits perfectly into the hand and crocoduck type stuff is really out there. So it's hard to know a poe.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,572
    vCash
    1500
    The creationist argument is that the second law of thermodynamics says that spontaneous change is in the direction of increasing disorder. There can be no spontaneous buildup of the complex from the simple because that would be in the direction of increasing order. As a result, TOE is wrong and creationism must be right.

    I don't understand how this is even a viable argument considering that one of the important mechanisms of evolution (natural selection) stresses for an open system.
    Last edited by Freakazoid; 10-21-2012 at 04:25 PM.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Baltimore now, but born and raised on the south side of Chicago.
    Posts
    6,803
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Obviously about Planet of the Apes. But with evolution deniers, what they actually claim is so far out that it's almost impossible to parody. I mean, the banana fits perfectly into the hand and crocoduck type stuff is really out there. So it's hard to know a poe.
    It's best to just assume that people are kidding when they say they don't believe in evolution. Less angry and disappointed in the human race = happier.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,917
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    It's best to just assume that people are kidding when they say they don't believe in evolution. Less angry and disappointed in the human race = happier.
    hey!

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,572
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    it's best to just assume that people are kidding when they say they don't believe in evolution. Less angry and disappointed in the human race = happier.
    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    hey!
    lol

  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Central Europe
    Posts
    1,167
    vCash
    1500
    Just wanted to add, that if the easier to understand definition of the law is used the discussion wouldn't crop up.

    Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location.

    In the end it doesn't mean more then if you have a closed system, temperature, pressure etc balances out in the system so that there is a even distribution in the system. Again to use this argument the misconceptions about both the laws of thermodynamic and the ToE, need to be huge.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,489
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    The key part that those trying to use the Second Law to disprove the TOE ignore is the closed system. The universe as a whole is a closed system, as far as we know, which leads us to believe that there will be an eventual Heat Death of the Universe.
    So in the closed system of the universe why would life exist?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    38,229
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerlive View Post
    So in the closed system of the universe why would life exist?
    Because nothing about Thermodynamics says there wouldn't be.
    Visit my Blog.



    "Glad the GOP finally came out with an Obamacare alternative. Can't wait to see their alternative to the Iraq War." - @LOLGOP

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,489
    vCash
    1500
    Let me just take it a step further and play along.

    Really what your talking about is negative entropy and in an open system nothing contradicts negative entropy when considering the second law. So now I pose this question what organisms are best at creating negative entropy in an open system?

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •