Derrick Williams...whats the plan?

[PurpleJesus]

The number 2 pick seems to quickly be losing playing time on paper, with the moves we have made.

AK to start at the 3, with Budinger coming in at that position as well.

Cunningham and Amundson coming in to backup Love at PF

If DWill is meant to be a PF, then why bring in two backup PF's?

Where are the minutes for him? AK gets 27-33 minutes at SF, Chase gets about 20 minutes split between SF and SG. Love gets 38-40 minutes at PF. With how things stand, Williams is looking at about 15 minutes per game split between 2 positions. He is going to have to work his butt off to get minutes...which maybe the plan?

[topdog]

I don't think for one that Kahn is planning on Love playing 38-40 minutes. I'm sure they'd like to limit that as much as possible which will depend in part upon Williams' play. I would assume that Williams will be the primary backup at PF; and, that if he shows he can play it, he can start picking up minutes at SF.

I see it more as the average being like:

Love 36mpg
Pek 36mpg
Stiemsma 8mpg
Amundson 4mpg
Williams 8mpg + whatever he can carve out at SF
Cunningham 4mpg

And I say average because there will be games where any number of these guys won't play a minute.

[PurpleJesus]

Cunningham will get around, and probably more than 10 munutes per game...I guess what I am missing from this equation though, is that Chase will likely be the primary backup at SG, as well as a spot starter when Roys health is in question...which means he will play less at SF than what I thought. Other things that enter the equation, is Shved, who could take minutes away from Chase at the 2 (who likely wont command a lot of minutes right away), and if DWill can handle the 3.

[topdog]

Williams' role on the team depends upon him being able to play the 3 (which Kahn drafted him for but Adelman isn't ready to endorse yet). I can see Williams getting 20+ minutes with playing the 3 as Buddinger or Lee are going to have to cover Roy's breaks as Shved is perhaps more of a project (but who knows?).

I think they'll want to limit AK's minutes as well so it's all really incumbent on Williams being a capable 3. The better he is, the less the other guys will have to play.

[PurpleJesus]

We also need a 6th man...I don't see anyone on our bench, other than DWill, being talented enough to take on that role...Budinger maybe...but no.

I am just loving our bench so much right now though.

Luke = the solid veteran backup point
JJ = change of pace, aggressive offense
Chase = Athletic high flyer who will do great with Rubio hitting him for alley oops, as well as the open 3
Stiemsma = the defensive guy needed to guard the paint against the likes of Dwight
Cunningham = Defensive effort
Amundson = see Cunningham

Dwill, Shved and Lee = our projects.

[silverson]

We also need a 6th man...I don't see anyone on our bench, other than DWill, being talented enough to take on that role...Budinger maybe...but no.

I am just loving our bench so much right now though.

Luke = the solid veteran backup point
JJ = change of pace, aggressive offense
Chase = Athletic high flyer who will do great with Rubio hitting him for alley oops, as well as the open 3
Stiemsma = the defensive guy needed to guard the paint against the likes of Dwight
Cunningham = Defensive effort
Amundson = see Cunningham

Dwill, Shved and Lee = our projects.

I think that's exactly it. I have tried to make this point before but the language barrier is making it hard for me to explain. The choices Adelman brought for our bench have a specific role. Mostly defensive, effort guys. The only guy on our bench that can provide something "special" at the frontline is Williams. So I think he has a role and will get minutes.
Anyways I still don't know if Amundson is a better choice than Tolliver. I guess we'll see.

[silverson]

I'd like to stress out something else as well. Other than Kyrie Irwing, no one else in the top 10 came in dominating the game. I would say top 20 if it wasn't for Kawhi Leonard. It's not a case (yet cause you don't what will happen this year) where you'd say we picked Williams instead of someone else who is better.
I mean look at pick number 3, Enes Kanter. He was picked by a team that had in front of him Big Al, Millshap and Favors. He scored less, rebounded less and got less minutes than Williams. I don't see them stressing that much.

[PurpleJesus]

Good points on Tolliver and the draft Williams was taken in. For the top ten of that draft, Williams is still looking like the right pick.

Regarding Toliver, I thought the same thing initially when I found out about the Amundson signing. I dont see one or the other being more talented than the other, but thought Toliver would get the nod over a lot of the bigs we were chasing, just due to familiarity...however, Amundson can play C and PF...Toliver cannot play C. Amundson becomes our third C...something we would not have had if we went with Toliver over Amundson.

[topdog]

Good points on Tolliver and the draft Williams was taken in. For the top ten of that draft, Williams is still looking like the right pick.

Regarding Toliver, I thought the same thing initially when I found out about the Amundson signing. I dont see one or the other being more talented than the other, but thought Toliver would get the nod over a lot of the bigs we were chasing, just due to familiarity...however, Amundson can play C and PF...Toliver cannot play Amundson becomes our third C...something we would not have had if we went with Toliver over Amundson.

Tolliver may not be the biggest or fastest player but he was a good utility player who could guard the 3-5 with decent results on most nights. He also hustled his *** off, could make close shots and was a 40%+ 3pt shooter when his wrist was healthy. I think Tolliver is better.

However, with Tolliver you have to consider that we would have to drop someone else to bring him back because he will not play for the minimum. In that sense, I'd much rather have Amundson at the minimum than chasing a trade to drop payroll to sign Tolliver.

[silverson]

Good points on Tolliver and the draft Williams was taken in. For the top ten of that draft, Williams is still looking like the right pick.

Regarding Toliver, I thought the same thing initially when I found out about the Amundson signing. I dont see one or the other being more talented than the other, but thought Toliver would get the nod over a lot of the bigs we were chasing, just due to familiarity...however, Amundson can play C and PF...Toliver cannot play C. Amundson becomes our third C...something we would not have had if we went with Toliver over Amundson.

You are right and probably that was the reason Amundson got the place. On the other hand Tolliver had the 3p shooting. In the end of the day we should trust Adelman. It's his team.

[PurpleJesus]

Tolliver may not be the biggest or fastest player but he was a good utility player who could guard the 3-5 with decent results on most nights. He also hustled his *** off, could make close shots and was a 40%+ 3pt shooter when his wrist was healthy. I think Tolliver is better.

However, with Tolliver you have to consider that we would have to drop someone else to bring him back because he will not play for the minimum. In that sense, I'd much rather have Amundson at the minimum than chasing a trade to drop payroll to sign Tolliver.

Yeah, I was going to bring up the contract issue too, where AT may not have wanted to get the minimum. I do think though, that Amundson is a much better center than Toliver...though both are PF's.
We really are nitpicking right now though, as the season approaches, discussing players who have/had the opportunity to be the last guy on our bench.

[topdog]

I'd like to stress out something else as well. Other than Kyrie Irwing, no one else in the top 10 came in dominating the game. I would say top 20 if it wasn't for Kawhi Leonard. It's not a case (yet cause you don't what will happen this year) where you'd say we picked Williams instead of someone else who is better.
I mean look at pick number 3, Enes Kanter. He was picked by a team that had in front of him Big Al, Millshap and Favors. He scored less, rebounded less and got less minutes than Williams. I don't see them stressing that much.

Thanks for the Kawhi Leonrad reference

I think you make a very good point; and, by the same token, we all were talking last December about how Williams' transition to the 3 was going to take a year at the very least, but that he seemed up to the challenge.

His "caged lion" comments and a somewhat sudden shift to "win now" put a bit of a damper on Williams fandom, but he still remains that kid out of California who didn't come from the streets and wasn't the next anything, but turned himself into the #2 pick.

Finally, there was all the uproar before the lockout was over about D-Dub playing with the superstars in the Phillippines and elsewhere and what rave reviews he was getting. We are quick to forget and dismiss (myself included and maybe Silverson excluded ), but Williams hasn't shown anything that doesn't say he's still the #2 pick.

[topdog]

Yeah, I was going to bring up the contract issue too, where AT may not have wanted to get the minimum. I do think though, that Amundson is a much better center than Toliver...though both are PF's.
We really are nitpicking right now though, as the season approaches, discussing players who have/had the opportunity to be the last guy on our bench.

It's sort of relative. Like Silverson said, Tolliver gives you 3pt. shooting from your 13th-15th man. I'll agree we you that it is nitpicking over something relatively insignificant as you say though.

[Aleksandar]

I just trust Adelman is doing the right things. If he chose not to bring Toliver back, I guess it's cool.

Toliver actually shot more than 70% corner 3s two years ago, but dropped to like 35% last year. I guess his hand injury really derailed his shooting ability...

[specialiststeve]

I see things a bit differetntly for the rotation as I see that they will try to keep Love, Pek, and AK47 at 30-32 minutes a game to keep them fresh and away from injury. Especially not that we are MUCH deeper. That being said I think that Williams will get minutes at both PF and SF depending on matchups. I also think Buddinger will be playing more of the 2 than the 3 as his asset is shooting and I think he can play decent enough defense at the 2 to make it work. Roy is not going to be able to play 32 a night and we will need someone there for likey 20 minutes a night. I would choose Buddinger before anyone else.