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  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Kramer View Post
    Good news for bulls, although i would have liked to see him play against my squad. Still, the Cavs should be able to knock off the Bulls the way they've been playing this season, now without Rip for a few games.
    LOL, I guess you dont watch many Cavs games. Bulls by 10 due to defense especially with Waiters out. Cavs will be lucky to get over 80 pts tonight. The only hope they have is HC advantage but that isn't much these days.

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  2. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    That is your rebutal? It's a proven science. Just because you like TT it doesn't make him a more talented player.

    The player efficiency rating (PER) is a rating of a player's per-minute productivity.

    To generate PER, I created formulas -- outlined in tortuous detail in my book "Pro Basketball Forecast" -- that return a value for each of a player's accomplishments. That includes positive accomplishments such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls.

    Two important things to remember about PER are that it's per-minute and is pace-adjusted.

    Because it's a per-minute measure, it allows us to compare, say, Steve Blake and Derek Fisher, even though there is a disparity in their minutes played.

    I also adjust each player's rating for his team's pace, so that players on a slow-paced team like Detroit aren't penalized just because their team has fewer possessions than a fast-paced team such as Golden State.

    Bear in mind that PER is not the final, once-and-for-all evaluation of a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for defensive specialists -- such as Quinton Ross and Jason Collins -- who don't get many blocks or steals.

    What PER can do, however, is summarize a player's statistical accomplishments in a single number. That allows us to unify the disparate data on each player we try to track in our heads (e.g., Corey Maggette: free-throw machine, good rebounder, decent shooter, poor passer, etc.) so that we can move on to evaluating what might be missing from the stats.

    I set the league average in PER to 15.00 every season.

    Among players with at least 500 minutes in 2010-11, the highest rating was LeBron James' 27.34. The lowest was Stephen Graham's 4.41.

    Proven science my ***** lol. Just like ESPN created the QBR... It's stupid and pointless to go to that stat. but keep on thinking that man. the stats you showed me earlier were not much different. JV has not done anything worthy of me praising him and wishing we had him over TT. I'm not even a TT fan that's what your not understanding. I agree with everybody on here, TT looks atrocious on offense. But JV is averaging almost the same amount of points so what's that say about him.

  3. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    You mean you don't think it's useless, and the players we like aren't just better because we like them.
    Yo cut it out with the trolling dude, no need for that nonsense. But if your gonna buy into some fake BS stat that ESPN created then that's your thing. I'm sure I can go on there and pull up some rediculous guy that has a better PER than a player that is obviously better in no time.

  4. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto4short View Post
    Proven science my ***** lol. Just like ESPN created the QBR... It's stupid and pointless to go to that stat. but keep on thinking that man. the stats you showed me earlier were not much different. JV has not done anything worthy of me praising him and wishing we had him over TT. I'm not even a TT fan that's what your not understanding. I agree with everybody on here, TT looks atrocious on offense. But JV is averaging almost the same amount of points so what's that say about him.
    I suppose you don't believe in Sabermetrics either? Your argument lacks any substance. Just saying something is "stupid and pointless" proves your intellectual level. These stats have proved to be very effective measuring tools for sporting teams.
    The point your missing with the comparison of JV and TT is that PER isn't just about points. It's about how efficient you are when on the court (boiling down all the players contributions into one number). Monta Ellis is a top 15 player when you look at his offensive (points per game) numbers. But does that make him better than Tony Parker, or Deron Williams, or Blake Griffin? Hell no... but they all have lower points per game.

  5. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto4short View Post
    Yo cut it out with the trolling dude, no need for that nonsense. But if your gonna buy into some fake BS stat that ESPN created then that's your thing. I'm sure I can go on there and pull up some rediculous guy that has a better PER than a player that is obviously better in no time.
    Then prove me wrong! You're only defense is that "it's stupid" and "it's fake" and that it's "bs." But you have yet to provide anything of substance.

  6. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    Then prove me wrong! You're only defense is that "it's stupid" and "it's fake" and that it's "bs." But you have yet to provide anything of substance.
    Yet you haven't proven anything by pulling up an article from the dude who designed PER himself... LOL, of course he's gonna support it. Your just coming off as a douche for real. JV isn't gonna be anything special and neither is TT, so your argument is pointless either way.

  7. #412
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    PER is a great stat, no question about it. However, much like WAR in baseball, it's not the "end all" stat. Using any one stat alone to determine who the better player is as foolish. Much like dismissing PER is foolish. PER is a great tool in determining who the better player is but you should always look to use a multitude of stats.

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto4short View Post
    Yet you haven't proven anything by pulling up an article from the dude who designed PER himself... LOL, of course he's gonna support it. Your just coming off as a douche for real. JV isn't gonna be anything special and neither is TT, so your argument is pointless either way.
    If you learned how to read you'd realize that I have given you supporting evidence, an explanation of how it works, and why it's important. You have responded with "it's stupid," "you're a douche," "your argument is pointless," and "JV isn't special."
    Do me a favor - stay in school. And try to not to get into debates when you clearly have no argument or understanding of the topic.

  9. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    If you learned how to read you'd realize that I have given you supporting evidence, an explanation of how it works, and why it's important. You have responded with "it's stupid," "you're a douche," "your argument is pointless," and "JV isn't special."
    Do me a favor - stay in school. And try to not to get into debates when you clearly have no argument or understanding of the topic.
    Your kidding right? You gave no evidence, you pulled up the formula used. You used an article about how it works. Does that prove that you can determine one player is better than the other through this? No. Your the one who started trolling first because somebody disagreed with you. Guess what, definitely not the first time i've seen you do it on here either. Any time somebody disagrees with you here comes the trolling. Stop getting butt hurt. I guess they should just take whoever is #1 on the PER and give them the MVP right? Then look at all rookies and the one with the highest, just give them the ROY.

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    PER is a great stat, no question about it. However, much like WAR in baseball, it's not the "end all" stat. Using any one stat alone to determine who the better player is as foolish. Much like dismissing PER is foolish. PER is a great tool in determining who the better player is but you should always look to use a multitude of stats.
    Just let em work it out Melo.

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  11. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    PER is a great stat, no question about it. However, much like WAR in baseball, it's not the "end all" stat. Using any one stat alone to determine who the better player is as foolish. Much like dismissing PER is foolish. PER is a great tool in determining who the better player is but you should always look to use a multitude of stats.
    Absolutely! I think that PER doesn't always factor in defense effectively. It's not perfect. But it is probably the most effective tool for analyzing talent.

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto4short View Post
    Your kidding right? You gave no evidence, you pulled up the formula used. You used an article about how it works. Does that prove that you can determine one player is better than the other through this? No. Your the one who started trolling first because somebody disagreed with you. Guess what, definitely not the first time i've seen you do it on here either. Any time somebody disagrees with you here comes the trolling. Stop getting butt hurt. I guess they should just take whoever is #1 on the PER and give them the MVP right? Then look at all rookies and the one with the highest, just give them the ROY.
    Enough said - you got me there! The reason I am wrong ladies and gentlemen is because I'm "butt hurt!"
    PER is a "tool" (sort of like you but in a different context) used to analyze players. It doesn't give the absolutely complete picture but is the best way to compare talent statiscally. Although the "it's stupid and pointless" analysis is really starting to take form and may be used amongst top level GM's.
    BTW the rookie with the highest PER right now is Anthony Davis... hum wasn't he drafted #1 in the 2012 NBA Draft? Will he win the ROY. Maybe... if he can stay healthy. Close behind is Drummond and Lillard.
    Keep making yourself look even dumber and dumber with every post!

  13. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    Enough said - you got me there! The reason I am wrong ladies and gentlemen is because I'm "butt hurt!"
    PER is a "tool" (sort of like you but in a different context) used to analyze players. It doesn't give the absolutely complete picture but is the best way to compare talent statiscally. Although the "it's stupid and pointless" analysis is really starting to take form and may be used amongst top level GM's.
    BTW the rookie with the highest PER right now is Anthony Davis... hum wasn't he drafted #1 in the 2012 NBA Draft? Will he win the ROY. Maybe... if he can stay healthy. Close behind is Drummond and Lillard.
    Keep making yourself look even dumber and dumber with every post!
    Let me guess, you got the inside information that the "top level GM's" use the PER. Get out of here man. And was you being butt hurt my reasoning? No. Keep trolling man. Here I though Carlessyn was the troll. No wonder you got banned and had to beg to get access back. Probably because your the "tool". Why debate when we have the ALMIGHTY PER? We know how players are ranked lets just go to that. I guess we can settle if LBJ is better than Jordan, lets just pull up their PER's... Your acting as if PER is just the end all stat.

  14. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    LOL, I guess you dont watch many Cavs games. Bulls by 10 due to defense especially with Waiters out. Cavs will be lucky to get over 80 pts tonight. The only hope they have is HC advantage but that isn't much these days.
    haha must have mis-understood me. You are right i have not watched many Cavs games, none to be exact. I was referencing the way the Bulls have been playing lately, that even the Cavs should be able to get a W vs. them. If the Cavs even sniff 80 points they will win, cuz the bulls will be in the 70s going forward.

  15. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto4short View Post
    Let me guess, you got the inside information that the "top level GM's" use the PER. Get out of here man. And was you being butt hurt my reasoning? No. Keep trolling man. Here I though Carlessyn was the troll. No wonder you got banned and had to beg to get access back. Probably because your the "tool". Why debate when we have the ALMIGHTY PER? We know how players are ranked lets just go to that. I guess we can settle if LBJ is better than Jordan, lets just pull up their PER's... Your acting as if PER is just the end all stat.
    You're speaking nonsense! And need some grammer lessons. Sorry, never got banned. From your perspective how are players ranked? Please enlighten!

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