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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruckus16969 View Post
    I'd do this deal in a heart beat. But I'm hoping for Lackey to be better then Santana next year.
    Yeah me too, but, it's the team harmony stuff that makes his performance secondary perhaps.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Yes, if he's guarded from the 30 toughest pitchers he'd face and use that to be regular rest for him, he could be a .925 sort of hitter. I am afraid the asking price is going to be high however.

    Webster, Owens, Brentz is the sort of package I expect that they'd want - minimum.

    Santana is getting $25.5M next year, no way I'd take him, unless Lackey is part of what goes back.

    OK, that's my deal:

    Davis, Santana

    for

    Owens, Lackey, Pimental, Brentz, Iglesias

    We give up a very nice spec, a young promising spec, a meh spec, a banjo bat SS, and a bum SP

    and get a broken SP - but a real professional, and a decent 1B.

    Mets can flip Iglesias easy enough if they like.
    im not willing to trade Owens. Id rather not get Ike.

  3. #198
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    V-Mart is another option to consider for 1B. Consistent .300+ hitter that's tough to K and good OBP (.370 career), 20HR+ and runs producer. Ranauado or some lottery ticket and we pick up the contract

    There's no way I want Santana/Bay back just to get Davis.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I hate to burst your bubble but the Mets would not take Lackey's contract, they are looking to rid themselves of bad contracts not add another one like Lackey's.

    It's going to be difficult to make a deal i think.

    The Mets are zapped for power in the first place, and sources close to the Mets say they would want a "boatload" in return for Davis.
    In that park Lackey is arguably good. Plus they control him for 3 years for a bucks more then Santana who we'd only have for one.

    Of course it will be hard. But Davis isn't worth the boatload claimed, if they hold too hard to that, they'll get nothing.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Station 13 View Post
    V-Mart is another option to consider for 1B. Consistent .300+ hitter that's tough to K and good OBP (.370 career), 20HR+ and runs producer. Ranauado or some lottery ticket and we pick up the contract

    There's no way I want Santana/Bay back just to get Davis.
    I think his .370 OBP is a thing of the past. He's aging and injury prone, and not worth $25M the next two years. I'd rather LaRoche for $15M for two years.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    In that park Lackey is arguably good. Plus they control him for 3 years for a bucks more then Santana who we'd only have for one.

    Of course it will be hard. But Davis isn't worth the boatload claimed, if they hold too hard to that, they'll get nothing.
    Yeah i wouldn't expect them to get a "boatload" for a 1st baseman that started off incredibly slow this year, can't hit LHP, and regressed defensively.

    He's good in the context of what the Mets need him for and that's power, otherwise he is nothing to write home about (as much as i like him)

    Yeah considering the Mets owe Santana about 31 million and it's like you said essentially the same to Lackey, if the prospects were right i can see a deal happening.

    My only hesitation is the fact that the Mets keep stating power is a priority this offseason which makes me believe Ike stays put.
    Last edited by metswon69; 10-16-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Yeah i wouldn't expect them to get a "boatload" for a 1st baseman that started off incredibly slow this year, can't hit LHP, and regressed defensively.

    He's good in the context of what the Mets need him for and that's power, otherwise he is nothing to write home about (as much as i like him)

    Yeah considering the Mets owe Santana about 31 million and it's like you said essentially the same to Lackey, if the prospects were right i can see a deal happening.

    My only hesitation is the fact that the Mets keep stating power is a priority this offseason which makes me believe Ike stays put.
    The Mets should build around speed with that park IMO.

  8. #203
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    I would never do that deal Bags proposed. Ike and Santana are not sure things and I believe Owens has arguably the highest upside of any of our pitching specs plus I'd like to keep Brentz.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI4LIFE View Post
    I would never do that deal Bags proposed. Ike and Santana are not sure things and I believe Owens has arguably the highest upside of any of our pitching specs plus I'd like to keep Brentz.
    Agreed with Owens. He and Swihart are the only specs outside of the big 3 that i wouldnt consider trading.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar_RA View Post
    The Mets should build around speed with that park IMO.
    They let most of that go when Reyes left and Pagan was shipped out of town.

    We heard rumors of Arencibia and Chris Young (OF) as possible targets this offseason, so you know they are looking strictly for power.

    When looking for power i guess it's kind of counterproductive to trade it away...
    Last edited by metswon69; 10-16-2012 at 09:19 PM.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    They let most of that go when Reyes left and Pagan was shipped out of town.

    We heard rumors of Arencibia and Chris Young (OF) as possible targets this offseason, so you know they are looking strictly for power.

    When looking for power i guess it's kind of counterproductive to trade it away...
    i guess but with Duda youre replacing power with power.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I think his .370 OBP is a thing of the past. He's aging and injury prone, and not worth $25M the next two years. I'd rather LaRoche for $15M for two years.
    V-Mart hit .330/.380/.470 last season, that to go with only 51 strike out.

    Give me V-mart, Tigers.

    LaRoche has a player option $10M, and the Nats will give him an extension.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar_RA View Post
    i guess but with Duda youre replacing power with power.
    Nah Duda can't hit.

    He hits lefties better than Ike but that's not saying much, neither can Duda play first base everyday.

    If Ike doesn't get off to that horrible start in the first 2 months of the season where he batted in the .150s, their OPS and numbers of that nature would not even be comparable.

    Ike is the much better power threat.
    Last edited by metswon69; 10-17-2012 at 02:56 AM.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Station 13 View Post
    V-Mart hit .330/.380/.470 last season, that to go with only 51 strike out.

    Give me V-mart, Tigers.
    ???????????????????? - left knee surgery 3/14/12 - out for the year

    2012 - DNP

    He'll be 34 in December - on paper.

    Starting with 2008, these are his games played figures:

    073
    155
    127
    145
    000

    He was also badly injured in 2006 which ruined his effectiveness at catcher.

    His oWAR and dWAR breakdown since the start of 2008:

    oWAR - dWAR

    0.6 ---- 0.1
    4.6 --- -1.5
    3.7 ---- 0.3
    3.1 --- -1.1
    0.0 ---- 0.0

    So, even if we get 135 games out of him, he's at best a 3.0-3.5 WAR hitter and a negative WAR glove who is going to be even slower on the bases than when he left.

    He'll cost us $25M over two years, and carry a very large risk of injury and/or decline - and for this we have to give up a spec or two?

    No. Instead we do a 3 way deal where Lackey ends up in the NL West, we get VMart and $5M, and lose three specs (2 decent specs to NL West team, good spec to Tigers), and $7M x 2 years to defray Lackey's contract.

    Giving up non key specs, and $9M net to get rid of Lackey, and take a roulette spin on VMart (who is at least good for the clubhouse) seems like a good deal to me. Pink hats would probably love it.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 10-17-2012 at 07:38 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    ???????????????????? - left knee surgery 3/14/12 - out for the year

    2012 - DNP

    He'll be 34 in December - on paper.

    Starting with 2008, these are his games played figures:

    073
    155
    127
    145
    000

    He was also badly injured in 2006 which ruined his effectiveness at catcher.

    His oWAR and dWAR breakdown since the start of 2008:

    oWAR - dWAR

    0.6 ---- 0.1
    4.6 --- -1.5
    3.7 ---- 0.3
    3.1 --- -1.1
    0.0 ---- 0.0

    So, even if we get 135 games out of him, he's at best a 3.0-3.5 WAR hitter and a negative WAR glove who is going to be even slower on the bases than when he left.

    He'll cost us $25M over two years, and carry a very large risk of injury and/or decline - and for this we have to give up a spec or two?

    No. Instead we do a 3 way deal where Lackey ends up in the NL West, we get VMart and $5M, and lose three specs (2 decent specs to NL West team, good spec to Tigers), and $7M x 2 years to defray Lackey's contract.

    Giving up non key specs, and $9M net to get rid of Lackey, and take a roulette spin on VMart (who is at least good for the clubhouse) seems like a good deal to me. Pink hats would probably love it.

    Yeah IMO V-Mart is not the answer unless he comes cheap. But, if the sox can't find a 1B via free agent or trade. I expect them to think outside the box. Possibly having Salty or Lavernway playing 1st and picking up a catcher, or converting a prospect who plays OF into a 1B in the offseason. Hey, they could possibly convert WMB like they did with Youk when he originally was a 3B into a 1B and bring up Xander to play 3rd once he is ready.

    I can't see the sox dropping all that payroll, just to sign another bad contract for a FA class that doesn't have anyone that sticks out. I mean they can possibly sign Lee, or Berkman for 1 year as a stop gap, and see what comes around in 2014 FA class. One name I also heard was Kubel when he was with the Twins from Arizona, who played 1B once in a while from Arizona, and Mauer from thw Twins.

    This is a rebuilding year so i'm not expecting anything BIG in this for FA signings. I'd rather the sox stick to their guns, and start getting prospects ready for the Bigs.
    Last edited by wolf82; 10-17-2012 at 08:43 AM.

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